Wednesday, March 23, 2016

Arrow 4x16 Review: "Broken Hearts" (I Just Don't Know, Where Do Broken Hearts Go?)


"Broken Hearts"
Original Airdate: March 23, 2016

It sucks when you get yout heart broken.

It sucks even more when you're the reason it's broken in the first place.

I don't have a lot of sympathy these days for Oliver Queen, and that's of no fault of Stephen Amell's acting (or Emily Bett Rickards' reacting for that matter). My lack of sympathy is due to the shoddy story that led us down the path of character regression and now has us firmly planted in the "consequences" part of a story circle. I've said it numerous times in multiple reviews this season, but I could have written a million other plots that involved Oliver's son without having to tread the already ridiculously-treaded trope of "secret child" that — for some reason — writers still believe is interesting and/or engaging. I could have written myself (and you all) a mighty-fine narrative. But alas, we live in a world in which Oliver Queen blatantly lied to the love of his life for weeks — months, probably, but my semblance of the passage of time in the Arrow-verse is pretty nonexistent — in order to appease a woman he knocked up but had no real emotional connection with. Heck, she wasn't even Oliver's FRIEND.

I know logic and reason aren't often in Arrow's wheelhouse, but this whole fabricated drama would be easier to swallow if it wasn't for the fact that it is just so easy to poke holes in. Oliver would never — in any universe — demean Felicity for the sake of elevating pretty much any other woman.

So why, then, am I expected to believe that he would demean Felicity for the sake of some random woman who made a thinly-veiled ultimatum?

At this point, you're probably wondering when I'm going to get to the point in my reviews where I transition into discussing the plot. And I will, don't worry. Because there are only so many times I can beat this absurdly-contrived Oliver/Felicity drama until it resembles a pinata at a child's sixth birthday party. And it's no secret that I've been strongly disliking the last few episodes of the season (apart from the introduction of Vixen because that was flawless).

So with some time apart from my beloved comic book series, how did "Broken Hearts" stack up? You're about to find out!


"YOU SAID FOREVER AND ALWAYS."


I'm going to take a step back from my rage at this horrid storytelling for a moment to discuss Felicity and Oliver as individuals and as a couple throughout pretty much this entire review. But I'll break it up into sections, for the sake of ease. 

What I really do admire about Arrow is that — throughout this "baby mama drama" story — it reminded us all that Felicity is not merely one half of "Olicity." She's not a prop or a love interest. She's more than that, and we are reminded of that repeatedly throughout this episode and throughout "Taken," too. Felicity Meghan Smoak is not the kind of woman who deserves to be lied to (no one deserves that) and instead of falling into what is comfortable and hoping the man she loves will one day wake up and magically change, Felicity takes the harder path and breaks off their engagement. And then, throughout the episode, she continues to shut him down when he insists on getting back together (more on that later, I promise). 

But just because Felicity was the one to break off their engagement doesn't mean Oliver is the only one with a broken heart in this episode. Felicity's heart is breaking just as much, but manifesting itself differently. Because the truth is that whatever end of a break-up you're on — and whatever hand you played in a relationship's demise — will determine which stage of grief you begin your coping process in.

And yes, "grief." The loss of a relationship — especially one as deep as Oliver and Felicity had — deserves time to be mourned. Oliver begins his stage of grief somewhere around the denial stage, considering he still didn't cancel their wedding venue: he's holding onto hope that Felicity will change his mind or that this all will be a dream. But it's not, and the cold, hard reality of that smacks him in the face as he plays pretend with Felicity and watches her pack up boxes. Felicity, meanwhile, is at the "anger" stage, even if it's not manifested as clearly as Oliver's grief. 

No person can exit a relationship unscathed. But some scars run deeper than others, and Felicity's (inflicted by Oliver) will take her time to heal. Oliver has scars, too, but they're self-inflicted. And the only way he will heal is if he takes this break-up hard — if he realizes that his actions and lies have very real, very tangible consequences. Anything else is just fluff. And it seems that by the end of "Broken Hearts," Oliver still hasn't learned his lesson quite yet, leading to a lot of angst.

Angst in relationships on television is good, by the way. I welcome the angst. Because unless you have angst, you can't have fluff. You can't know what is so special and loving about a relationship until you realize all that it took to get them there. If you have fluff without angst, you have a fantasy — worse, a fantasy that no one wants. As much as we feel pained seeing our favorite characters and pairings break up, we need some sort of conflict and tension in order to generate realism. (Obviously I hate this whole storyline because I think it's out of character — wildly so — for everyone involved, and there are a million ways the show could have written this tension and conflict without character regression, but ALAS, I DIGRESS.)

And that brings us to...


"YOU'RE NOT SORRY"


(Taylor Swift is always applicable in every circumstance, but never more so when discussing relationships. And this line from her song is probably exactly how Felicity feels right now.)

Let's backtrack a little bit and discuss the plot of this episode: Cupid has returned, full of anger and bitterness that Felicity understands (on a much, much, MUCH smaller scale) after Oliver's betrayal of trust. Cupid watched Deadshot die, and now she believes that love only ends one way — in pain. So the woman once devoted to The Arrow is now a woman who believes that love is just a quicker path toward death. And speaking of death, Cupid is so anti-love that she's decided to prove it to Star(ling) City by killing off high-profile couples in love. Not exactly the best wedding present. Personally, I would have gone with a crock pot. So in order to act as bait and capture Cupid, Oliver and Felicity pretend to get married — wedding dresses, vows, and all.

Throughout most of "Broken Hearts," Oliver and Felicity don't do much talking about their relationship, both to each other and to the rest of the team. It's still fresh (Felicity is moving out at the beginning of the episode), and so that's understandable. But when the couple needs to say their fake vows, Oliver's are very real. They're genuine, too. I believe he believes every word of them, just as I believe Felicity does hers.

Here's the one, giant, lingering problem in all of this: Oliver hasn't apologized yet. Our friend Charles tweeted that as a question during the episode, wondering if Oliver has even said he's sorry yet for lying to Felicity. For viewers keeping score at home, he has decidedly not. It's been a while, but recall what I said in a recent Arrow review — there's a difference between healing and placating; between pretending things are okay and hastily moving on and taking the necessary time to learn a lesson. Oliver doesn't want a lesson learned. He wants this time to be no different than any other time before he's lied to Felicity or to another person. And therein lies the problem. Because unless this one sticks — unless Oliver really and truly recognizes that what he did was wrong and that he can't just say nice things to get Felicity to come back to him — nothing will ever be learned.

Oliver is not sorry for what he did. Or, if he is, I don't believe it. He hasn't given me a reason to. And, in fact, Oliver's behavior at the end of "Broken Hearts" made me a little bit furious. After everything that went down, Oliver confronts Felicity about the little speech she delivered to Cupid. It was a speech about how love makes people better and how it made her better. It's lovely, and especially considering the fact that Felicity is going through all that she is. Felicity is the most mature one in this break-up, actually.

So because Felicity said some nice things about love — and about how Oliver's love changed her and gave her purpose (I'm citing an infraction here, writers, for telling me that a man is what gave Felicity Smoak purpose. Umm, no thank you and problematic much?) — Oliver presumed that he was forgiven. After all, didn't she hear all the nice things he said about her? But what Felicity realizes is this: she knows where she stands. And she's firm in her beliefs. And she's firm in her refusal to get back together with Oliver, or even to talk to him at the moment.

All that their fake marriage caused her to realize was how wrong she was about everything. Now, this is the part in which I'm going to disagree with Felicity. She cites her telling Oliver that they could have it all — the superhero life and a love life — as being wrong. But she's missing the real problem. The issue wasn't one of superhero lifestyle vs. normal life. This lie did not exist because Oliver is the Green Arrow. This lie existed because Oliver chose for it to. It had nothing to do with the dichotomy between the two, and that's something Felicity missed the mark on.

Nevertheless, she tells Oliver that a part of him will always be the Oliver from the island — alone — and that's the part of the speech I do believe. I believe Oliver needs to get over this constant need for isolation and doing everything by himself if he's ever going to have a functional long-term relationship. He needs to open up and let others into every single part of his life. He almost did that with Felicity — almost.

But it's like... it's like Monica's closet in Friends. Monica, the compulsive clean one, hid all of her junk in a locked closet from Chandler, the man she loved. She loved him and he loved her, but she still hadn't shown him every single part of her life. She was afraid the mess would draw him away, but it only made him love her more.

Oliver does not get that.

And I'm starting to worry that Oliver will NEVER get that.


IN WHICH I AM  THIS TAYLOR SWIFT GIF AND TAYLOR SWIFT GIF IS ME.


I now want to take a few moments and paragraphs to talk about one line that will stick with me for the remainder of the week. It's the one completely and totally unforgivable line that made me cringe and wonder what in the world the writers were thinking — and what Oliver Queen was thinking when he said it. 

Felicity, after her spiel about how Oliver will always be and act alone, decides that she needs to be away from the team. She needs to move out, and move on. It's too hard to work with Oliver night after night when he's still in love with her and when she still harbors love for him. It's not fair to either of them, and I would agree with her. Homegirl needs some time for herself, but Oliver doesn't see it that way.

In fact, when Felicity shuts him down again and tells him that she can't be with him — that she cannot marry a man who keeps secrets from her and who refuses to be forthcoming and who refuses to give her space, he says this: "Yes you can. Because that's what both of us want."

After I recovered from my BLINDING RAGE, I came to this conclusion: Oliver Queen is slowly and dangerously becoming that guy who won't take no for an answer. You know that guy, ladies — the one at work or the one at your friend's party or the one at a bar who just doesn't understand the fact that no means no. Felicity admits to loving Oliver, still, because how could she not? She was in love with him for a long time and planned a future with him. But what Oliver can't seem to wrap his ego or his brain around is the fact that loving someone and wanting to be with them are two totally separate ideas. Felicity loves Oliver but she knows that it is best for her — for her well-being and her emotional health — to move forward with her life right now. She's closing the book and he's prying it back open.

The manner in which that line was both written and delivered was horrible. (Not that this is Stephen Amell's fault, because I fault the writers on this one entirely — but Amell-as-Oliver was unbearable in this moment and I wanted to punch him in his pretty face.) This is the kind of behavior that's going to drive me to become anti-Olicity, if Oliver keeps his clingy, desperate behavior up, Love requires respect, something which Oliver used to have for Felicity. But in this scene, he had none. In fact, he had less than none — he treated her as someone he could just force into loving him. HE LITERALLY TOLD HER WHAT SHE WANTED. Who does that?!

Felicity was right to walk away. She probably should have run. Because though Felicity and Oliver don't want to let go of one another, one of them is already gone. And that someone is a tiny, blond, brilliant, powerful, amazing woman who deserves more than Oliver can provide her with at the moment. Felicity deserves none of what the writers have put her through this season. But you know what? I'm glad that she's emerged on the other side with her characterization completely intact.

I wish I could say the same for Oliver Queen.

And with that, I'm going to let Taylor Swift drop the mic on Arrow, "Broken Hearts," and this review:


Observations & favorite moments:
  • MVP for this episode is Amy Gumerick. She just plays Cupid's deranged, sugary personality to utter perfection. It's a fine line to walk — being intimidating as a villain while still being sympathetic and human — but she manages to do so with ease. Her presence was definitely welcome back on my screen. I like my villains a little crazy, but also humanized. And nothing makes us more human than love. Gumerick did a fantastic job depicting this really broken, jaded, and bitter character. And her scene with Emily Bett Rickards was top-notch. Seriously.
  • I didn't hate this episode! Though I still think this entire story is absurd and contrived, I thought that the show delivered Felicity through this mess as strong and as in-character as ever. There were moments I disliked about "Broken Hearts" (and it's driving me further toward Oliver AND Diggle dislike), but otherwise it was not as bad as I anticipated it would be.
  • Grave Predictions: It's gonna be a Lance. I can feel it in my bones. And I've now — after speaking to my high-counsel, Jen K. — come to speculate it'll be Laurel.
  • WHY DOES DIGGLE KEEP DEFENDING OLIVER'S LIE?
  • "Poor choice of words. My bad. My specialty."
  • In flashback-land, I literally couldn't tell you what happened. I mute them now. Let's play a game in the comments section: make up a story better than what's actually happening in the flashbacks! (Then someone tell me what really happened because I don't know.)
  • "So is no one else gonna say it? It's Cupid, stupidddd." I love Thea.
  • No Malcolm in this episode, which YAY. But also boo, because I miss John Barrowman.
  • Laurel really was rocking that blue power suit. It was such a pretty color.
  • "Love betrayed her, and now she wants to go to war against it."
  • There were some subtle parallels to "The Calm," which I appreciated.
  • "The way that you make me feel is the best part of my life."
  • Darhk is in jail and he made his wedding ring disappear? Then appear? Did I miss something important about the ring or is this just because his whole crusade was involving his wife?
  • "I don't want to let you go. But I'm already gone."
What did you all think of Cupid's return and "Broken Hearts"? Hit up the comments below and let me know! :)

28 comments:

  1. So being told he can't see his son unless you keep it secret is his fault? Felicity is basically upset he chose to be in his child's life after not being able to watch the kid grow up. He didn't flagrantly lie to her about having a child. He wasn't aware and when he did become aware he was almost immediately given an ultimatum. He shouldn't have to apologize to her for being forced into that situation. If the mother wanted that, felicity should respect the mother's wishes. Felicity should apologize to Oliver for how she's acting, that or go away forever

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    1. I'm gonna humor this because I'm in the mood.

      First off, what basis does Samantha have to make an ultimatum like that to Oliver? Regardless, Oliver never had to tell Felicity outright that he has a child or who the child was or anything else -- but he had to be forthcoming in some way, shape, or form. He was running to Central City, presumably telling Felicity he was seeing Barry or something. Blatant lies, right there. And so when Felicity asks what is wrong, and Oliver says "nothing," that's a lie of omission.

      Oliver could have easily said: "You know, Felicity, I can't tell you. Something happened in Central City, and I want to, but it's not my place to tell." Anything like that is sufficient.

      Again: what situation was Oliver "forced into," exactly? Did he have a gun to his head or rope around his neck from Samantha? Really, the idea that he had no choice is the kind of absolute BS that people with choices spew to make themselves seem like the poor, helpless victim. Oliver made a conscious decision to not tell Felicity anything.

      I'm not even going to entertain the "Felicity should apologize" comment, because I sincerely hope you're not the kind of person who thinks that victims should apologize to people who have wronged them. Because that's essentially what you're saying -- that because Oliver lied to Felicity, she deserves to bear the punishment for his mistake.

      Okay then.

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    2. Let's pretend that Felicity knowing could endanger the child in any way, even though that's a load of BS when the girl keeps his secrets for a living. Malcolm Merlyn aka a murderer/sociopath since s1 found out and he still didn't tell anyone. What was his excuse then besides BS writing? Put aside the fact that he asked her to marry him and that she would become his family... with what logic would Oliver do nothing to protect his son then by not asking the team for help? Then having Thea support the lie by telling him to not expose him to the public. Sure., it's logical with damien darhk's running around. Since when is Felicity the public though? He sure as hell didn't have a guilt problem with his sister knowing.

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    3. I'm sorry that I'm late replying to that regarding the baby mama - lie thing. According to the relationship Oliver and Felicity built in season 4, in my opinion, Oliver should tell Felicity from the moment he saw William and he thought that maybe he was his son. Felicity should be the one to run the DNA test and not Barry. Like Felicity said ''telling her should be a relief and not a burden", so there wouldn't be an ultimatum to accept. That's exactly how the real OLICITY would deal with the whole matter. Because they talked about everything, they didn't hold anything from each other.

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  2. If your willing to jump off the Olicity ship I`ll throw you a life line if you so choose.

    But about Broken Hearts. The Flashbacks did not give us Dr.Fate sadly, but brought the Idol that Dhark was using. It turns out it requires blood to use its power. So we are finally getting a connection to present day which explains why he got all those workers. He wants to use them to fuel the magical powers he will gain withouth spilling his own blood like Dhark did.

    As for this episode I loved the Laurel stuff it was good and the stuff with the Lances. It was like Law and Order DCU, and Laurel was amazing she's improved she hit rock bottom and came out stronger now I love her character. Captian Lance nailed Dhark to the wall as well today he did well on the stand.

    As for the Cupid stuff, I rather not talk about it mostly because what's said was said plus I was never a fan of Olicity so I don't think I should talk at all about it really. I still kind of wish the drama was the custody fight for the kid while running the mayoral race.

    But the biggest problem with the episode is kind of the problem with this whole season and like with season 3. It seems everyone forgot about the villians and the plot. Since I still don't know what's going on with Hive, no backstory, no details on their plan beyond the Evil Corn. The only plot that is moving foward is the flashbacks which is why I still pay attention.

    Maybe we need another Laurel trilogy that would be nice. Anyway can't wait till next wednesday.

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    1. Not gonna jump off the SS Olicity quite yet, but thanks for the offer. ;)

      It turns out it requires blood to use its power.

      We... already knew that? Right? Darhk would cut his palm in his creepy lair and spill it on the idol. I guess it's good to know WHY he was doing it, though.

      As for this episode I loved the Laurel stuff it was good and the stuff with the Lances. It was like Law and Order DCU.

      LAW AND ORDER: DCU. THIS IS PERFECT. I agree that I really liked the stuff with the Lances. Laurel is at her best in scenes with her family and in the courtroom, so this was the perfect mini-story for her to have in the episode.

      But the biggest problem with the episode is kind of the problem with this whole season and like with season 3. It seems everyone forgot about the villians and the plot. Since I still don't know what's going on with Hive, no backstory, no details on their plan beyond the Evil Corn. The only plot that is moving foward is the flashbacks which is why I still pay attention.

      I definitely agree with this. While I love Darhk and think he's a great character, they're trying too hard to bounce and focus between lots of different character-focused plots that the actual villain arc isn't driving the story too well. I diagree though because I think last year WAS villain-focuses... but it was just BAD in how it was executed.

      Thanks for your comment, as always! :)

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  3. It's going to be a hard life for felicity if she has to leave every time her significant other hides something from her, lots o' divorce if she marries anyone.....I mean really people will always have secrets from their significant others whether it is secretly liking gilmore girls or how many previous wives they have had, marriage is about compromise, and neither side is perfect, oli has ptsd and she acts like thats something she just found out about. Yes last time I checked lady I was tortured for years there so forgive me if I have some residual affects from my said torture. I don't know, all I know Is I hate most women characters on tv, they are nasty, petty, and ditsy unless you have michone and carol from walking dead. In conclusion at least she isn't supergirl, pansy of the skys.

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    1. Wow (people will always have secrets from their significant others whether it is secretly liking gilmore girls or how many previous wives they have had)

      There is a difference between lying about a tv show you like and HOW MANY WIVES YOU'VE HAD.

      Also reading your last couple sentences, I hope you are doing well in the afterlife Archie Bunker.

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    2. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume you're even slightly intelligent enough to understand that there's a pretty significant difference between keeping a secret about liking Gilmore Girls and oh, I don't know... not telling the woman you're about to marry that you haev a son with someone else.

      oli has ptsd and she acts like thats something she just found out about.

      Please tell me where anything he did in this whole baby mama arc is relevant to PTSD. I'll wait.

      Moreover, let's all remember here why this arc is stupid and Oliver (moreso the writers at this point) can't be defended: Oliver lied to Felicity because Samantha told him to -- that no one could know he was the boy's dad, not even William.

      ... Except that Malcolm had known for a long time, Barry knew, Thea found out, and then Oliver told Felicity, Laurel, AND Diggle. So I ask you: what was the point of Oliver lying to Felicity when, at the point Samantha asked, two people already knew about it and a third was going to figure it out very soon. None of this arc makes ANY sense.

      I don't know, all I know Is I hate most women characters on tv, they are nasty, petty, and ditsy.

      I sincerely hope no woman ever encounters or meets you. God help us all if you're actually in a relationship with one. Your misogynistic, woman-hating comment is not only offensive, but deeply problematic. You're literally saying that women are nasty, petty, and ditzy. Yes, that's what you said -- women characters and literal women are the same thing; you can't say that you hate female characters on television and not mean that you hate women in general.

      So coming from the editor of a site run primarily by women, discussing how many amazing and varied and nuanced women there are in real life and on television... well, I'll just leave it at this and let you imagine all the colorful words I'm thinking in my head.

      I hope you meet the actresses who play Michone and Carol in real life. And I hope you say what you just said to me to them, because I would love to see just how horrified and disgusted their reactions would be at your women-hating vitriol.

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    3. i'm actually a woman and I hate how women are portrayed. Carol and michone show overcoming adversity and standing up to the people who may tear them down. Felicity is dependent whiny and not very understanding to one who suffers, If she didn't like his habits she definitely should not have led him on all the way up to a wedding then "oh you know what? I hate everything about you, adios!"

      Why does it matter how many wives some one had previously, what bearing does it have on your relationship now? Also what right does any "prospective" step parent have in deciding what the REAL parent does in respects to their kid. As for the ptsd thing felicity even said "you will always be that man on the island" referring to poor habits and problems he retained from the island. These habits are caused by the trama he faced. Disliking the potrayal of women on tv does not mean I hate women in real life, its sad you cannot separate the two, hate to break it to you, Tv is not real. MIND BLOWN.

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    4. Carol and michone show overcoming adversity and standing up to the people who may tear them down. Felicity is dependent whiny and not very understanding to one who suffers, If she didn't like his habits she definitely should not have led him on all the way up to a wedding then "oh you know what? I hate everything about you, adios!"

      *heavy sigh* So let me get this straight: Felicity managing to lead a company as its CEO while being paralyzed and, I don't know, not managing to crumble under the crippling pressure and emotional weight of the loss of her legs isn't facing adversity? Sure. Okay. Speaking of comparisons: The Walking Dead is a show about a post-apocalyptic world in which you have to kill zombies and other non-zombies in order to survive, but that doesn't mean they're always strong all the time. They break down. They get hurt and they pick themselves back up again.

      SORTA LIKE FELICITY? And I'm not sure if you're watching Arrow because the reason Felicity broke off her engagement wasn't because she "led him on" or "hates everything about him." He lied to her. Point-blank. And she watched him, over the years, develop and grow. Yes Oliver has PTSD. But in this circumstance, that PTSD had zero influence on his decision-making process to lie to her and continue to lie to her about having a child with another woman.

      What you're saying here is that if a woman is in a relationship and is lied to by a man, she should...? What? Suck it up? Not expect him to be truthful to her about a BIG THING and just excuse it? Because that would actually make Felicity a doormat, and a weak excuse of a woman and character. It would mean she's able to be emotionally manipulated. So that would be character assassination. THAT is something to be offended about.

      But that is NOT WHAT HAPPENED. Instead, Felicity remembered that she is worth more than being lied to, more than being the person Oliver only sometimes goes to whenever he has a big crisis or problem. Marriage is about partnership, compromise, and trust. How can Felicity marry Oliver when he's proven over and over again that he only trusts her when he wants to, and the rest of the time leaves her out of his big decision-making processes? How could you start your life with someone like that?

      Could YOU, if your partner did that? Could you sit around twiddling your thumbs, hoping one day they would see you as an equal instead of an afterthought?

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    5. Also what right does any "prospective" step parent have in deciding what the REAL parent does in respects to their kid.

      Felicity never wanted to make decisions for Oliver. She never wanted to parent William. She just wanted to be a part of the conversation and he couldn't even allow her that, out of respect.

      If you found out your partner had a child, wouldn't you... oh, I don't know, want to KNOW that? Felicity -- Oliver's fiance, the love of his life, and his soon-to-be eternal partner -- found out Oliver had a child about an hour before his ex-girlfriend and friend did. She wasn't the first to know. She wasn't the second to know. Heck, SHE WAS NOT EVEN THE THIRD PERSON TO KNOW THAT.

      Wouldn't you feel slighted? A little betrayed? Hurt?

      And it wasn't even just about the lies he told her whenever he went to Central City. It was the video he recorded to William, without her even hearing about it. Oliver doesn't even trust Felicity enough to tell her: "hey, I'm recording this video for William when he's older."

      That's all she wanted. Some sort of inclusion in the conversation. Not parenting rights. Not to be a step-mother. Not to call one, single, solitary shot. Just respected enough to be TOLD about it.

      Disliking the potrayal of women on tv does not mean I hate women in real life, its sad you cannot separate the two, hate to break it to you, Tv is not real. MIND BLOWN.

      That's hilarious. Go back and read the language you used to describe Felicity -- "dependent" and "whiny" and "not understanding." You mean to tell me you don't view women in real life who show emotions the same way? You mean to tell me I'm supposed to honestly believe this crap?

      I bet you call yourself a feminist, too. But the language you used to tear down fictional women is indicative of the way you view women in real life. You're saying that you hate women on television because they are "nasty," "petty," and "ditzy"? Puh-lease. That's an indicator of the way you see any woman in real life who doesn't fit the standard box you put them into.

      Newsflash: putting down other women in order to bolster a few (see: your comments about Carol, Michone) is not what feminism is. Feminism is the belief that women deserve to be treated as human beings.

      And if the way you talk about fictional character is any indication of the way you talk about real women? Well then I'm just saddened. Because in my experience, the way you talk about fictional things on the Internet says a lot more about the state of your heart and mind than most things do.

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    6. But you know what? Thank you for this conversation! Because it further solidified my love for Felicity Smoak and why this world desperately needs more feminists. :)

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    7. withholding information is not lying otherwise pleading the 5th would in fact be punishable by law, He never lied with his son, Dont you know the hardest people to tell extreme news to are the closest ones to you. He himself was still processing all this information. Yeah she made a presentation, OMG SHE IS SO STRONG, She was dating the real ceo and got the position because of her dating preferences not because she's great at her job, even if its inadvertently. Again women are not portrayed accurately on tv, most women are stronger and can work things out, compromise and not arbitrarily cat fight. I also like how I went from a misogynist to a crazy feminist....I am a strong person and believe those who have strength and will, can achieve their dreams. Is it harder for women? yes, but I feel in tv as well as movies (house wives, rom coms and supergirl) The girls are heavily dependent, whiny, indecisive, and catty. Real women are not like this. Im sorry you feel that women are like this.

      I also would not leave my husband for lying, people make mistakes. Yes, you talk through it and there are consequences, but just like you wouldn't dump your own child for lying you dont dump your husband. As long as he isn't gambling our money away, cheating, abusive, addicted or deadbeat then I'm fine. For better or worse is just that, things are not always perfect but couples that last know how to overcome their issues. I would be hurt at first but understand afterwards, he's not asking the kid to stay in his life, hell he only knew he had a kid for maybe 6 months before sending him away permanently never to see him again. He prefers to keep things to himself. Don't you think he is suffering? Then felicity strolls in and is like "why didn't you involve me? you know what we are through!" So he looses his son and the only person who was helping him open up. News flash more bad things happening dont improve an introverts chances of being open. No ones saying she cant feel hurt but throwing away ones entire relationship because she didnt find out first and wasnt a part of his private decision with the mother of his kid, is childish.

      I mean besides turning in her scumbag dad, she really is just stubbling through every situation that isnt hacking. I'm not saying she sucks completely just that this whole arc was crap to begin with and why does the "strong" female characters always have to fudge one of the male characters or be infatuated so much it affects their judgement.

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    8. but I feel in tv as well as movies (house wives, rom coms and supergirl) The girls are heavily dependent, whiny, indecisive, and catty. Real women are not like this. Im sorry you feel that women are like this.

      I just want to make sure that this is emphasized forever and always. Because I was going to reply to each of your comments, but then I realized I would just be wasting my time and energy. So instead, here's what I'll say: this statement is more indicative of how you see women than anything else. And the fact that you KEEP REPEATING IT and using other names to call women is pretty great. And by "great," I mean baffling.

      First off, Real Housewives? It's a reality show. I sincerely hope you're able to understand that and the fact that those women are real human beings, not TV characters. Second, reality shows thrive on manufactured drama, so yes, those women are going to act differently than they maybe would normally in order to generate the drama the show wants.

      But oh, right, again let me mention: they're real women. Not TV characters. They're... actual human beings. Like, living and breathing ones. So Bethenny and Vicki and Heather are all real people who exist in real life. Are some of their antics exaggerated for the sake of television? Absolutely -- in the same way the antics of people on The Bachelor or Survivor or any other show with real human beings are.

      So, let's just disregard that part of your "argument."

      I just simply want to say to you that I hope you learn that women on television are varied, nuanced, complex, and layered. Please please PLEASE get away from the belief that only Carol and Michone (or any other woman who weilds a bo staff, gun, or hunts zombies) are strong women. Watch some more movies and television and start to see women as the complex people they are.

      And also please get away from this idea that a woman isn't strong if she's a love interest. I could write you a 10,000 word essay as to why that's not true.

      If you're looking for a place that will support your ideas that there are no strong women on television, or well-written women, or that all female characters minus the two that you somehow think escaped this are "whiny" or "nasty" or "catty" or "dependent," this is not the place for you. Nor do I suspect you'll find a great deal many places on the Internet or for you.

      Open your eyes, Tanya, and realize that women -- and female characters -- are much more complex than the simplistic boxes you've put them into.

      I hope one day you realize that. I really do.

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  4. Wow, a lot of Felicity criticism in the comments today. I wish I were surprised. It makes me sad though.

    Hello angsty episode. The writers have succeeded for me in maintaining a believable character progression for Felicity. Too bad they decided to throw the Oliver character under the bus. I maintain that the choices from Samantha's point of view makes the least sense but that's all under the bridge and we now have to deal with the fallout. sigh

    Oliver's line about both of them wanting to be together didn't fill me with rage as it did for you. People say really stupid things during breakups. It didn't sound like a warning bell of worse behaviour as much as a continuation of denial and some emotional immaturity on his part. I mean, he's not wrong. They are still deeply in love with one another. He's simply missing the point (because he could listen better); that is not the only consideration when deciding to spend your life with someone. Oliver comes from a personal and family background where secrets, often very painful secrets, were a normal part of life. That is sad more than anything but in his denial he is thinking that the love should just move them past the deeper issues. That would be a bad idea and very damaging so it's probably healthy that they break up and deal with this now and not later. And I think they can deal with it but Oliver's gonna have to move past the denial stage before he can truly understand where Felicity is coming from.

    I can get where Oliver is coming from. At this point in his life he really only knows how to do things solo, at least when it comes to the most painful and difficult things. He's learning other skills but doing things on his own isn't even a conscious thought, it's just reflex. He's gonna have to alter that if he wants a strong relationship with Felicity and altering deep-seated behaviours takes an incredible amount of work as well as first recognizing the problem and desiring to change. Now, I'm not saying I agree with his choices; what he did was incredibly stupid and shortsighted and hurtful. I'm just saying I can understand the reflex. I got married at the age of 30. That's not super late but I also hadn't ever had a relationship before meeting my husband. I never dated anyone and I was very good at being alone. (Part of that is due to being in love for 9 years with a boy who didn't return the sentiment but that's not important.) I was a loner in a lot of ways, out of habit more than conscious choice. I traveled to different countries alone, I went out to diner and the cinema alone, I went to concerts and lectures on my own, it is still easy for me. When I did meet my husband and got married it was an amazingly smooth shift to being with someone however my tendency to handle stuff on my own was an issue. My husband has had to call me on it a number of times. Never, you know, hiding a kid or anything major but just a reflex of keeping things to myself or doing something without discussing it with him. I never even thought about it or any other way of doing it. I'm learning and I still slip up from time to time but it is something I recognize in myself and I work on it.

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    1. I don't understand Felicity hate. I legit don't.

      BECCA, MY LOVE. Apologies that I haven't been replying as consistently lately to your comments. You know I love them. <3

      It didn't sound like a warning bell of worse behaviour as much as a continuation of denial and some emotional immaturity on his part.

      I think for me, it didn't sit well because it proved that Oliver wasn't listening or caring about what she really wanted. She kept pushing him away and his (bad) advice from Diggle and Thea was just to tell her he wants to be together. But that's not what he said -- he said they BOTH want that, and that's where my problem was. I totally get what you mean about it being emotional immaturity, but something about it just unsettled me: like he doesn't respect her enough to really listen to what she's saying (like you said), only what he wants to hear. And that's the beginning of some problematic behavior, if he doesn't get it in check.

      I'm just saying I can understand the reflex.

      I totally get that. I understand that it's Oliver's reflex to isolate himself and do things all alone. It's how he survived and if anyone has a keen survival instinct that drives them, it's Oliver. The only person he had to rely on for so long was himself. I think my problem -- and not at you, obviously -- is the writers having Oliver deliver this eloquent, beautiful speeches about trust and honesty, but me not believing a word of them. The writers keep trying to emphasize that Oliver will be honest in the future, but I think what they're missing is not that Felicity needs to learn how to trust him again, but that WE need to do the same.

      I think that's the damage they've created with this story: Felicity needs to heal from her scars just as we are. If she heals too quickly, we don't believe it. (Which is why I'm glad she didn't get back together with him and why I'm hopeful they don't get back together by the end of the season either. At this point, there are what? 7 episodes, maybe less? It doesn't feel like enough time apart.)

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  5. That's why I think the major breaking point for Felicity was seeing Oliver record that goodbye video for William. I mean, the lie was huge, hiding such a major part of his life was a HUGE problem. It's just that the video was such a quiet reminder of Oliver's habit of doing things by himself. There was no major breach of trust there, the secrets were all out. Felicity just watched Oliver say goodbye to his kid and he never talked about it with her ever. She must have felt so left out. There was no ultimatum over his head at that point but he never told her about his decision or how he was handling it. It's not like Felicity disagreed with the choice to send William away it just that it didn't even cross his mind to discuss it with her. Ouch. That says a lot about Oliver. And it's something that she decided she just couldn't live with.

    To those who are taking shots at Felicity, ANYONE has the right to say what they will and will not live with in their relationship. Not all relationships are the same. I see loads of marriages that, from the outside, look like a situation I could never stand. That is not my call. It's their dynamic and the people involved are the ones who decide. So Felicity doesn't want to be in a relationship where her partner isolates himself, keeps massive secrets that impact her, and does major things without talking to her. It's her life and her call! Some couples function really well on largely parallel but separate lives. Cool for them. It's not what everybody wants and that's okay too. From everything we've seen of Felicity's character her choices seem consistent and understandable. She is clear, she doesn't toy with anyone and she says what she thinks.

    I don't think Oliver understands the real problem yet. I think he will though. It will sink in big time. If they can repair this they will be stronger for it. If not, the desire to do good for the city will keep them working together once they get past the super painful breakup time.

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    1. That's why I think the major breaking point for Felicity was seeing Oliver record that goodbye video for William. I mean, the lie was huge, hiding such a major part of his life was a HUGE problem. It's just that the video was such a quiet reminder of Oliver's habit of doing things by himself. There was no major breach of trust there, the secrets were all out. Felicity just watched Oliver say goodbye to his kid and he never talked about it with her ever. She must have felt so left out.

      This is a REALLY good point I hadn't thought much about, and probably why she brought up the "alone" thing. I was a bit taken aback that she did but now that you mention the video, that makes sense. Her pain in that moment wasn't about the lie or the secret, but about his refusal to -- after telling her -- think about letting her in. You'd think that he would be sensitive and talk about it with her after seeing how the lie impacted her, but no. He continued to go at it alone.

      To those who are taking shots at Felicity, ANYONE has the right to say what they will and will not live with in their relationship. Not all relationships are the same. I see loads of marriages that, from the outside, look like a situation I could never stand. That is not my call. It's their dynamic and the people involved are the ones who decide. So Felicity doesn't want to be in a relationship where her partner isolates himself, keeps massive secrets that impact her, and does major things without talking to her. It's her life and her call! Some couples function really well on largely parallel but separate lives. Cool for them. It's not what everybody wants and that's okay too. From everything we've seen of Felicity's character her choices seem consistent and understandable. She is clear, she doesn't toy with anyone and she says what she thinks.

      *standing ovation* *stands forever*

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    2. what is he going to do, record both of them together? "Hey this is felicity, she's the woman I chose over your mother, I love her and not your mom. Goodluck growing up hope it all turns out, cause I am soooo happy with felicity without you!"

      Though this might not be what he says, as soon as she is in that video that is what the child is hearing no matter the age. She had not right to be involved in that , sure he could tell her after but durng the video was not the place.

      Sure of course she has the right to leave, but why did she get involved in the first place since he really hasn't changed a bunch. The relationship was forced because she is a female "supporting" character. -_- Maybe she can come back with out the weird love arc.

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    3. Well, I gotta disagree here.

      Firstly, William won't be shown the video until he is 18. I think by that point, what with having his parents being apart for his whole life and him never even knowing his father, whether that absent father is involved with someone will be the least of his concerns. And Oliver made it pretty clear he is choosing the hero life over the dad life. Watching that video is going to be pretty painful no matter what.

      Secondly, I wasn't suggesting Felicity be in the video in any way. That would be unnecessary and I don't think it would have served the purpose of saying "Hey I'm your dad" and "My life is too dangerous for a child to be in it." What I was suggesting was that Oliver simply communicate about this momentous decision with the person he had decided to marry.

      Saying she didn't have the right to be involved in the decision is debatable (I would contend that as a future spouse, hopefully one who would be around if William and Oliver decided to somehow repair their heavily damaged relationship, Felicity should have some input in Oliver's family decisions.) But yes, she is not the parent so decision-making "rights" are not hers. But I don't think "rights" are the real issue at stake. I'm not concerned whether or not my husband and I have the right to comment on each other's career decisions, I just think it's part of being married to someone to hear their input. Even more so, I would be really worried if my husband was struggling with difficult decisions or emotions and not talking about them with me at all. Oliver talked about his emotions regarding William with both Diggle and Vixen during the course of the episode (and their input directly affected his decision) but he said NOTHING about what he was thinking or feeling to the person he wants to marry! I think that's a big red flag. For me, it's not about rights, it's about being part of each other's lives, especially for the life-changing stuff. Oliver just went through something traumatic and life-changing and Felicity was separate from all of it. That's deadly for a marriage.

      If their relationship has never felt organic to you I can see why you'd be pleased that it's no longer there. I've always found their chemistry not just believable but impossible to ignore. Either way, I found the difficulty between them to be fairly powerful and certainly a reason to step away but everyone's mileage will vary. It's not so much a matter of what I would do and more if I find Felicity's decision consistent with what I have seen of her as a character. Seems consistent to me.

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  6. Other things:
    - Has Oliver told anyone that he recognized Damian Darhk's idol from his time on the island? They are investigators and any thread to Darhk's past gives them something to pull to discover what he is doing. If he just shared more intel from his past (Mirakuru, Slade, idols, Amanda Waller etc) his team would be blind-sided less often. Has he not noticed a pattern of things from his five years away coming back in the present? ;)
    - We get at Oliver for being in denial about the breakup but I don't want to do that because I dislike it when anyone tells somehow how fast to "get through" with grieving
    - The courtroom scenes were impressive and I enjoyed seeing the Lances kick some butt there. It did take me a second to catch up to the fact that Darhk was arrested at his home after the kidnapping.
    - a private wedding is one thing but shouldn't there be at least a couple witnesses? If I were Cupid I wouldn't buy that zero friends and family were there.
    - interesting call back to Oliver's tech skills in the pilot
    - I think you are right on about Felicity confusing the source of their break up. She says it's about "this life" but of course it had nothing to do with the Green Arrow. Oliver's hero gig had nothing to do with Samantha demanding that he lie. It did factor into Oliver's decision to give in to those demands however I don't follow Felicity's logic that saving the city will mean keeping things from her. He may be in that position again but surely he's learned to simply say it's not something he can talk about. This crisis of faith in their being able to have both seems ill founded for Felicity. I'm sure there are problems with having both (Lyla and Diggle seemed to have figured those out) but plenty of people do have trust while having jobs that mean they can't disclose details to their partner.

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    1. It did take me a second to catch up to the fact that Darhk was arrested at his home after the kidnapping.

      Okay, I'm GLAD I WAS NOT THE ONLY ONE. Did we... see that scene in "Taken"? I don't remember it but it's also been a long time since I watched the episode. Thank you for vocalizing my thought during the "previously on" segment.

      a private wedding is one thing but shouldn't there be at least a couple witnesses? If I were Cupid I wouldn't buy that zero friends and family were there.

      Did not think about this, but YUP. Good call.

      I don't follow Felicity's logic that saving the city will mean keeping things from her

      Right? I don't follow a lot of logic on Arrow these days, but this one was particularly head-scratching.

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  7. The show seems to be held back by two basic problems that plague shows of this format. It has burned out its initial concept, and it has to plan for 3-4 year arc after year two. The result is regression, and the safest character to regress is the title character. He can't have bliss, or at least, he can't stay in it, because the initial premise says he can't. That is why he's a hero.

    Of course, for fans, it is infuriating. He is trying to keep his word when he is emotionally weakened by the news he has a son, and he makes a promise he tries to keep, but the problem for heroes is the problem of priorities, and here, he chooses the wrong one. Felicity isn't going to drop him if he breaks this promise, but he chooses to honor the wrong promise, and the weight of it, breaks the couple. It's dumb, and anyone who have ever been in a committed, long term relationship knows it.

    So why are we here? Oliver's hero's journey (at least him as a hero) is done, and it's Felicity's turn. She has to turn away from the hero role, and through pain, be brought back to it. Being a hero hasn't been easy, but she hasn't had to make the in-the-field calls Oliver has. Life, death, right, and sacrifice have most often been the responsibility of Oliver's role, but now they need Felicity to go through the same maturation. That is why I think the death is Momma Smoak's. This is her journey. It will be her price to pay that brings her back to her roal as hero.

    And to Becca's point, yes! Oliver should tell them what the mystery thing is. Why didn't he? They probably didn't know that was the story arc, and it is a mistake.

    As for Darhk's magic trick, I think it is just trying to establish that he still has power, even without the idol.

    As for all of this hate for the main characters, yes, Charles was right, he hasn't apologized, but I don't think that is the issue. This is an arc. This is where it hurts. Oliver shouldn't apologize for protecting his son and his relationship with his son. Felicity doesn't have to accept him back. She needs to choose the hero's path, take on a really scary bad guy next year, which I hope is part of her dad showing up this year, and become the hero she can be. Then, and only then, can she choose Oliver, who really won't be changing that much going forward. We hate this part, but the show clearly thinks it is an established structure of hero development. As hard as it is to be here, this is Oliver at his best in a difficult situtation, and Felicity becoming a hero in her own time. He promises no lies, and she calls him on it, not because Oliver is a serial liar, but because heroes can't make that promise. That is where we are. We are supposed to hate this.

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    1. Sloppy grammar. I apologize to all it offends.

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    2. Matt, thanks as always for your insightful comments!

      We hate this part, but the show clearly thinks it is an established structure of hero development.

      I totally get this. Well, not totally because I'm still unsure as to why the show thought it was necessary. But like you said, they matured Oliver a LOT at the beginning of this season and panicked, wondering where their conflict would come from. And they dug from the stalest of all trope hats to find it.

      Your comment about Felicity's hero's journey now being important and essential is really interesting. I think they're setting her up for some great stuff with this separation (that will of course be resolved in 8 episodes' time because finale ~reasons~), and I'm glad her character was consistent throughout the entire arc.

      He promises no lies, and she calls him on it, not because Oliver is a serial liar, but because heroes can't make that promise.

      That's really interesting to think about -- that it's less about Oliver specifically and more about the hero life in general. It fits with what Felicity says about them not being able to have both lives (even if I disagree).

      Thanks again for your comment! :)

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    3. I think, without a major event, Oliver can't evolve anymore. As a hero, he has no where to go outside of possibly getting smarter about how to deal with people with extraordinary powers (like, not attacking Darhk the same way for 7 weeks).

      The second issue is Felicity is the second most important person on the show, but not yet a hero on her own. Her trajectory is from outside of Oliver's world. She is a light in his life, but he and his choices are darkness to her. She's accepted him for this long, loved him for this long, but is now no longer a pure light. Despite all that has happened, she has found a way to when push comes to shove, to shove Oliver into the best path left. She has been critical to the character's development into a true hero, but not a hero in her own right.

      As a hero, as Overwatch, she's not yet ready to embrace the path, which means you make bad choices in a Fabian strategy to survive, to protect the innocent, until you can defeat evil. The arc of her story is now where she steps back from her heroic role to protect the self she was, that she still believes she is. When darkness comes for her, and I think it is to kill Momma Smoak, but any Lance will do, she will have to choose between quitting where she is now, revenge, and the role of the hero.

      All of this said, when she accepts her role and the costs of it, she will then be on equal footing with Oliver again. So at the end of season 5, they are back together, some great evil is finished, and S6 is the end of the trope.

      Hopefully.

      And thanks for the space to talk. My kid wants to go to Orlando for Disneyworld. I want to go to buy you a coffee.

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  8. When Diggle said something to the effect of "You have a child, Oliver, give her time to adjust to that.", I pretty much wanted to strangle him. Oliver having a child is so not what this break-up was about and I'm disappointed in Diggle as well as the show for trying to gloss over Oliver's lies so easily. It is disrespectful and infuriating.
    That said, I still loved their vows as I loved your review! We just can't expect too much from these writers anymore, it sadly appears.

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