Thursday, May 21, 2015

Problematic Palmer: What Went Wrong With This 'Arrow' Character


Have you ever done something that, in theory, seemed like a great idea but in practice was actually a horrible, horrible mistake? In your head or on paper, it appears smart -- it even appears logical. But in practice, you find that the exact opposite is true. I mean... New Coke, anyone? This applies to all aspects of life, not just marketing. It especially applies to -- as you might have gathered from the title of this post -- writing. Sometimes writers create characters who, on paper, appear to be perfectly fine. The actor or actress who portrays them may be great but there is something about the execution of the character that leaves a distinctly sour taste for viewers.

As is such in the case of one Ray Palmer this season on Arrow. I have qualms with how the show has handled (or not handled correctly) certain things over the years. There were problems in season three and a lot of those problems -- and the rage associated with them -- can be attributed to this character. Before I continue, let me just state this: I think that Arrow finally managed to construct the version of Ray Palmer that they had envisioned from the beginning of the season, but only during the final two episodes this year. I have nothing against Brandon Routh as an actor. I think he did a good job with all that he was given and he seems to be an overall decent human being.

No, my problem is the way that Ray was introduced to us, constantly forced upon us even when we resisted, and shoehorned into a season that already felt a bit fractured. Let's take some time to examine where, exactly, this character went wrong in order to understand better what could be done to prevent the same character defects and flaws in the future. As another aside: I'm not the first person to write about Ray Palmer's problematic characterization. I will point you toward Tumblr in order to read some more amazing critiques from other fabulous people. (Note: I inadvertently adopted the phrase "Problematic Palmer" from Tumblr user ah-maa-zing, so thank you for that and for your piece.)

Ray Palmer is problematic because he was introduced as persistent and aggressive toward Felicity Smoak, thereby perpetuating the idea that this is what romance looks like. If you've spent any amount of time around me, you know that I detest the Twilight series (and the more recent Fifty Shades of Grey). The reason that I hate Meyer's novels are because they encourage obsessive, controlling, and abusive behavior. The reason that I detest E.L. James' series is the same: these women write their protagonists as idealizing a man who desires to control them and never be apart from them. They slap the label "love" or "infatuation" on the behavior and women believe that to be okay. Ray Palmer never physically harms Felicity Smoak, but he does stalk her and manipulate situations in order to control her response to the situations/him.

There have been a number of conversations about Ray Palmer's behavior and whether or not it is classified as "stalking." We can argue semantics all day (stalking, by the way, can be defined as: "to pursue stealthily," which -- considering the fact that Ray 1) continued to pursue Felicity when she resisted and 2) did so in a manner of which she was unaware by pinging her phone -- seems pretty accurate to me, no?) but the thing that concerns me most is how many people can justify Ray's behavior because he's an attractive man. If he was unattractive, would people not have objected vehemently? See, the first problem that I ever encountered with Ray Palmer was that he was portrayed as an extremely aggressive character. He pursued Felicity even when she rejected his advances. That is not right. A healthy relationship -- as defined, by the way, by the National Domestic Violence Hotline -- "allow[s] both partners to feel supported and connected but still feel independent. COMMUNICATION and BOUNDARIES are the two major components of a healthy relationship." When Felicity told Ray that she didn't have time for him, that she wanted no part of being around him, he decided to... force her into his company by buying out the company she was working at before.

The problem with this, of course, is that it was meant to be the trope-y "big romantic gesture." We're meant to swoon at Ray's behavior, desiring that -- we, too -- could find a Disney prince who buys out entire companies so that we're forced to be around him. Ladies and gentlemen, this is just my humble opinion but obsession is not love. Control is not love. And it's not romance. And pursuing someone even when they repeatedly reject your advances is not endearing. It's not acceptable. It's not right. The buying-out of the company was bad enough, but then Ray pinged her phone which I will never get over. Ever. When, exactly, is it acceptable to place a tracker on the phone of a woman who has shown no romantic interest in you? The writers hit a real low in that story.


Since Ray was problematic in personality and abrasion, his issues trickled down to Felicity a bit this season. Because after all of that -- the buying out of the company, the pinging of the cell phone -- Felicity still chose to date Ray and swoon at and vouch for him. Even when he bought her a dress to wear and essentially bribed her into attending dinner with him (which... look, I know couples who are MARRIED and would never buy a dress for their wives, let alone tell them what they should and shouldn't wear) while wearing expensive jewelry. Because in spite of Ray's troubling behavior, there was still the fractured state of Oliver/Felicity that was pushing Felicity into the open and creepy arms of Mr. Knows-Every-Episode-of-Doctor-Who. Though I didn't like or accept the idea of Ray/Felicity at the beginning, I tried my best to understand where Felicity was coming from -- how Oliver kissed her and pushed her away; how he kept doing that time and time again, essentially driving her away from him and straight toward Ray.

There's something that bothers me when it comes to the discussion of Ray/Felicity and it's the insinuation that I dislike that romantic pairing because I just want Felicity to be with Oliver. That's an asinine assumption, really: I've been around fandom enough to understand the idea of a "slow burn." I really liked Jess with Ryan even though I ship Nick/Jess (New Girl). I ship Oliver/Felicity, sure, but I also really enjoy the idea of Barry/Felicity (The Flash). I may want Jeff and Annie to be together, but I could totally enjoy some Rich/Annie action (Community). The point, of course, is that liking or disliking a character has far more to do with how that character is written than with who that character is paired. I think Felicity Smoak could have had a love interest this year who was compelling and not like Oliver -- a person who treated her well, respected her boundaries, and... who she just wasn't in love with. It's a bit trope-y to do this -- to introduce a "rival" for one half of a main pairing -- but it's a trope because it works when it's executed correctly. No, I did not dislike Ray because he was Felicity's significant other and therefore "standing in the way" of Oliver/Felicity. (As an aside: ... that's not even true. Ray wasn't standing in the way of Oliver/Felicity; OLIVER was. It's proven in this season that Felicity was never in love with Ray to begin with and that it was always Oliver for her). I disliked Ray because I thought he was creepy and because of this, I disliked Ray/Felicity -- I disliked the fact that this pairing was being encouraged: that red flags in a relationship were brushed aside by the writers and producers. That, heck, they were even DEFENDED. 

Ray's actions toward Felicity this season in his "romantic" pursuit of her were aggressive, not romantic at all, and the fact that they were dismissed -- that they were ACCEPTED -- infuriated me.

Felicity's behavior made sense, to an extent. And for the majority of the season, Ray/Felicity was isolated from every other story and every other story in the lair. That, in and of itself, was problematic. You can introduce a potentially divisive character by pairing them with the (arguably) most-beloved character of the series, but there is still an issue at play because if you isolate that pairing from the rest of your story and the rest of your characters, you're only really seeing shades of that character. Does that make sense? Breaking Felicity and Ray off into their own stories this year didn't allow us to connect with Ray as much as we might have if he had been integrated with the team. Understandably, he had no reason to be integrated because he didn't know about Felicity's affiliation with The Arrow.

Ray had potential to be an interesting character -- a foil for Oliver and a way for him to realize what he wanted out of life -- but how do you construct a foil for your main character if you barely have them interact? Ray was never a foil for Oliver, to me. Ray's stories (and, by extension, Felicity's) were set up nearly entirely independent for most of the season from Oliver's. There were overlaps ("Draw Back Your Bow," briefly, and then later in the season), but the two were never presented as equals... in anything. So my problem, then, is this: what, exactly, was Ray's purpose if he wasn't set up to be a stumbling block in the Oliver/Felicity romance? Perhaps he was initially meant to be a foil, but the execution of that story was so poor so I'm throwing out that explanation.


We may have all hated Malcolm Merlyn this season, but at least he served a purpose throughout the entire third season. Ray's purpose became evident once he became The ATOM. He was going to be a superhero -- the kind of hero that Oliver... wasn't? The rich, billionaire, technologically-inclined kind, in fact. I abhorred most of "Suicidal Tendencies," so here's what I wrote about Ray Palmer in that episode:

Everything that was good (of which there were very few things, but a few things no less) about Ray/Felicity is pretty much all shot in this episode when Ray discovers that Oliver Queen is The Arrow and decides to embark on his one-man-machine mission to save Starling City. Ray is like every new crime-fighter -- overeager, driven purely by emotion, and entirely reckless (see: Laurel, Roy). In fact, Ray is so blinded by his jealousy of Oliver (isn't it fun to have a man be jealous in a show instead of a woman) and his stubborn belief that Oliver is a criminal and a lowlife that he knocks aside Felicity, tells her that he was wrong to trust her (accusing her of her feelings for Oliver clouding the judgement of the kind of man he really is). I just have one thing to say to you, Ray Palmer: you don't deserve Felicity Meghan Smoak, then. 
My problem with the Ray/Felicity resolution is the reason I've had problems with Danny Castellano all season of The Mindy Project: instead of learning something for himself -- instead of becoming a better person by treating Mindy better -- Danny ALWAYS has to learn lessons through other characters telling him what to do. His Ma has to tell him to go after Mindy. Tamra's cousin Sheena has to tell Danny how to treat Mindy during a fragile time in her self-esteem. Danny can never just learn a lesson on his own. He always has to be told by other people how to treat the woman he cares about, supposedly. In "Suicidal Tendencies," Oliver has to tell Ray Palmer to trust Felicity. And then... Ray decides to trust her. Not because he realized, on his own, how selfish and egotistical he was being. Not because he realized he was being a tool to Felicity, hurting her for having a relationship with a man that existed while he was still happily with Anna. No, he decides to trust Felicity in the end because the man in the hood told him that he should. Solid, right? 
Ray is, quite simply, far too high-and-mighty in this episode. Because he's been a superhero for about five minutes, he believes he knows what is best. His entire perception of Felicity changes because -- as he accuses her of -- HIS perceptions of Oliver blind him to the truth. He's arrogant and narrow-minded and if you didn't dislike Ray before this episode, you probably did after viewing. Or maybe that's just me.

Ray became much more of a problem for me after "Suicidal Tendencies." If you read that review, you know that I understood where, exactly, the show was attempting to stem Ray's anger/frustration/heroic desires from -- this was a man who had to sit by, idly, and watch the love of his life die. He felt helpless. He felt powerless. He felt WEAK. And he vowed to himself that he would never feel that way again and never allow a situation like that to happen again to the people he cared about or the city he cared about. So be became a hero because he needed to play God. It was the only way he could ensure a tragedy like Anna's didn't happen again. Okay, understandable.

The problem, as I noted above, was that Ray Palmer was written as a complete and utter jerk to Felicity Smoak. He was more than a jerk, honestly, but I will refrain from using any other language to describe him. The only -- I repeat, ONLY -- reason that he trusted Felicity was because Oliver told him that he needed to. Before then, Ray attacked Felicity, verbally, dismissing her and berating her and using his position as her current boyfriend to guilt her into not telling him a secret that wasn't hers to tell to begin with. His behavior was erratic. It was inexcusable. It was downright cruel. Did Ray have a right to be upset? Sure. He absolutely did.

Did Ray have the right to take his anger out on Felicity -- a woman who he's supposed to care about? Supposed to love? No. Not at all. Ray had no right in that episode to act as rashly, as inconsiderately, and as cruelly as he did. It was problematic when Felicity thanked Oliver for proving her right to Ray. Let me rephrase that: Felicity thanked OLIVER for proving that she was right to her BOYFRIEND. A man who should, by all accounts, respect her without having to be convinced.

It angered me that Ray treated Felicity as he did and angered me further when she took him back and accepted his behavior with such a blase attitude. This is the problem of Ray Palmer in a nutshell: a push, self-righteous, demanding character who is presented as the alternative to Oliver. At least Oliver, with all of his playboy ways and lying, shaming, and secret-withholding, has seemed to learn a bit by the end of the third season. I spent the majority of the season upset with him, too, and if you read my reviews, you can get a more detailed explanation as to why. But I haven't quite begrudged a character's appearance on my screen as much as Ray Palmer's in recent years. Mainly because, as I noted, Ray doesn't seem to have become better, necessarily.

I enjoy the integration that Ray had toward the end of the season. It felt natural and more compelling, especially when you had Ray learning to fight from Oliver and the latter giving the former some motivational speeches. It felt like an awkward dynamic, but not a forced one. It felt like what should have been happening all season. Perhaps if it had, the problem of integrating Ray's character and his inappropriate attitudes, actions, and quirks could have been avoided or at least lessened. Perhaps if Ray had been integrated sooner, I would have seen him as a foil for Oliver, rather than what he ended up being -- a failed love interest.

But I digress: let's discuss how Ray almost made it to my good list and then quickly re-assigned himself.


There's a moment where Ray tells Felicity that she can talk to him. It's actually something he says to her frequently. He pushes her to communicate with him, even when she's clearly upset and does not want to. Ray then tells her that he's always going to be there for her (aww, how sweet) and that it's non-negotiable (... and that sounds rather stalker-y, no?). Felicity continues to want to keep her distance from Ray Palmer and yet, there he is around every corner, reminding her that he's still there and that he will always be there.

Romantic? Creepy? You can decide, but I'm going to choose the latter.

We thankfully ended the season in a good place for Ray -- he let Felicity go, even though he had signed over his company to her, because I think that even he realized how much she deserved to ride off into the sunset with Oliver after all they had both been through. The few notes of redemption toward the end of the season do not make up for the chaotic dysfunction that characterized Ray Palmer throughout the entire third year of Arrow, though. What I wish is that we had gotten more of the kind of character Ray Palmer was toward the end of the season: humbled, sarcastic, but still willing to let other people help him and not control situations or circumstances.

Alas, what we were introduced to in "The Calm" was a man who was aggressive, relentless, controlling, and pushy. And unfortunately, that was the character who stuck around.

9 comments:

  1. I am totally with you on the Twilight/Shades of Grey dislike. I was working in a bookstore during the height of Twilight mania and it was disturbing because the customers were so young and they were swallowing that particular idea of "romance" with such enthusiasm. It gives me the willies. The books were badly written as well but my major problem was how both authors tended to characterize obsession and control as love. Icky.

    But on to Palmer. I am with you on disliking Palmer for all the reasons you laid out here. I was brought round to from dislike to lukewarm by the last few episodes. However, I will say I never filed his behavior at the beginning of the season as "romantic" overtures. I think those were mostly business decisions. Trying to convince Felicity to work for him and then buying her current employer were never moves that were driven by personal feelings (in my mind anyway). At that point Palmer was entirely focused on getting QC and the right personnel and tech to complete his suit. He felt Felicity's skills would be crucial to getting the chip to work right (which turned out to be correct) so he did pushy business things in order to get her on his team. Not pleasant and very pushy for sure (especially unpleasant because Felicity was dealing with Sara's death at the time) but in a business context I was willing to file it with other unpleasant business behavior that I'm sure is typical in competitive mega-corporations.

    The big turning point for me was "Draw Back Your Bow". That was where Palmer was surprised to realise that he had developed feelings for Ms Smoak and what could just be overly assertive business moves now become coloured by "personal feelings". And for me that made similar aggressive moves now REALLY unpleasant. When Ray pinged her phone (the second time) it wasn't because she was in danger or because he wanted to help her (not necessarily good reasons for trailing someone but better than just to make a girl talk to you). It was because he wanted her not to be cold to him anymore. She was noticeably wrapped up in some pretty serious stuff right before Oliver went away and Ray forced the conversation when he followed her from their place of work into her private life and she had to go and talk to him to prevent him finding the Foundry. That was an invasion to me and no justification will get me past that move.

    His character was less objectionable to me in other settings and I hope the character and actor have a good future. I just wish they could have given me a relationship for Felicity that was compelling instead of cringe-inducing.

    Like you I have no problem looking past my personal fav relationships to see the good in other pairings. I love Barry/Felicity and enjoy them whenever they are onscreen together whether there are real romantic possibilities or not. I thought Iris/Eddie was interesting and realistically done and I like that pairing. My heart will always belong to Oz but I totally understood the pairing of Willow/Tara on Buffy. Sure, I want Nick and Jess together as a couple but if they are both happy with others I will totally sign up to watch that because it has often been done well. I'm glad Cece and Schmidt found their way to each other but they have both had very compelling and entertaining relationships elsewhere. I'm not dogmatic when it comes to shipping. I believe you can have your fervent favourites and still enjoy other dynamics. Maybe it's because I don't believe in soulmates or The One or love-at-first-sight. I believe we all have the possibility of being truly happy in a number of situations. Human beings are incredibly complex and multidimensional and they are in flux all the time. My husband is the love of my life not because he is the only or "best" one in the world for me. He is the love of my life because I chose him and he chose me and we keep choosing that love and that life and working for it everyday.

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    1. Becca, my love. Can we gather up all the women who think Twilight and 50 Shades are romance and hold an intervention for them? Because... NO. BIG NO.

      Ray forced the conversation when he followed her from their place of work into her private life and she had to go and talk to him to prevent him finding the Foundry. That was an invasion to me and no justification will get me past that move.

      See, that's the thing about Ray's personality... he was pushy. He kept pushing himself into Felicity's life, trying to force her to talk when she clearly didn't want to. That's a troubling sign -- when a man cannot take "no" as the final answer. For all of his faults, Oliver always respects Felicity. She backed away in the alley and he didn't step toward her. He kept his distance. RESPECT WHEN WOMEN SAY "NO," RAY.

      I'm not dogmatic when it comes to shipping. I believe you can have your fervent favourites and still enjoy other dynamics. Maybe it's because I don't believe in soulmates or The One or love-at-first-sight. I believe we all have the possibility of being truly happy in a number of situations. Human beings are incredibly complex and multidimensional and they are in flux all the time. My husband is the love of my life not because he is the only or "best" one in the world for me. He is the love of my life because I chose him and he chose me and we keep choosing that love and that life and working for it everyday.

      *standing ovation*

      *hands you a mic*

      *lets you drop it*

      #StopPatronizingShippers2k15

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  2. I agree with Becca that Palmer's actions at first seemed fueled by his need of Felicity's brain. Still very off putting though after her repeated "No no no no". I think if episode 2 never happened I'd have a different perspective of Ray but it did and things were soured for me since then.

    My biggest gripe with Ray is that his actions weren't addressed at all. I can get behind a grey character who does whatever he needs to succeed. I can't get behind someone who's meant to be super duper awesome but does REALLY socially unacceptable things. They pretty much set him up as a villain! Unknown character swoops in and takes hero's company, then hero's night job then hero's girl. Eeeeeeeeh. Not to mention Felicity's acceptance of his behaviour.

    The writers tried really hard to make me like him and it seemingly bled into Felicity's reactions to him. I wish they spent the episode where Ray became Edward from Pretty Woman and Felicity the prostitute to set up her magnificent speech. Instead of a dress and necklace a scene where they discuss his plans and she highly approves. Boom!

    But in the end I really liked Ray. They removed the "good guy nonsense" and allowed him to just BE a good guy.

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    1. Hi there, Lanche! Thanks for your comments, first of all.

      Yeah, I do think Ray initially pursued Felicity for her intellect. So it makes it slightly less creepy, but only slightly. Because then... yeah. She repeatedly says "no" and he eventually wears her down. Eesh.

      My biggest gripe with Ray is that his actions weren't addressed at all. I can get behind a grey character who does whatever he needs to succeed. I can't get behind someone who's meant to be super duper awesome but does REALLY socially unacceptable things.

      Hallelujah, amen. This is perfect.

      The writers tried really hard to make me like him

      YUP. Literally, the more we resisted, the more they forced him upon us. And I know, yeah, scripts are written in advance and things are shot so they had no idea how we would feel. But... NO ONE thought this was a bad idea? I don't really like feeling like a character is being force-fed to me and that's how it felt with Ray. Like the writers were saying: "Well why WOULDN'T YOU LIKE HIM? HE'S SUCH A GOSH-DARN NICE GUY." And what you said is ABSOLUTELY perfect: they needed to follow the adage of "show, don't tell." If we had been allowed to see Ray be a socially acceptable human being, I would not have this problem.

      But alas, I do. And it was a problem.

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  3. This is a really good assessment of everything I found problematic about Ray Palmer. I was appalled by his introduction: his buying the company she worked for so she was forced to work for him, his pinging her phone, his showing up at her place unannounced. And what made it all the worse was his "most women would be flattered" comment. From the very beginning there was a gendered sexual dynamic to his behavior and his treatment of Felicity and I was creeped out by him immediately.

    And that could have been okay if his behavior had been addressed. If he'd been told that what he was doing was unacceptable. Instead, Felicity protested in the very beginning, but her objections were framed by him as a response to him taking the company from Oliver, as if she wouldn't have objected without this negative bias towards him. And then, at least in his mind, he was proved right by her eventual acceptance of his advances.

    And then when he's introduced to the Flash Gang, it became clear that the showrunners and writers themselves don't think his behavior was unacceptable when they added in the line from Felicity claiming the way they got together was "way less creepy than it sounds."

    Now, there are lots of awful people who still make for great characters, but unfortunately Ray is not one of them. Like you said, his story never meshed with everyone else. Truly, his inclusion in the season never felt like an actual new character integration the way, say, Roy's did when he was introduced late in Season One. Ray's story never seemed to further anything on Arrow at all, other than his own story. I truly think if Ray had been left out of the season entirely, not a single element to the season would have changed. Instead, Ray's story felt like one big, long backdoor pilot (and, indeed, sort of was).

    I felt a lot of Season Three was stalled out along the season, especially as they continued to just draaaaaaaag on the Hong Kong nonsence. Ray's story, and his lack of any interaction with anyone save Felicity, just felt like another stall.

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    1. Thank you for your comment and compliment! :D

      And what made it all the worse was his "most women would be flattered" comment. From the very beginning there was a gendered sexual dynamic to his behavior and his treatment of Felicity and I was creeped out by him immediately.

      This is an absolute perfect way of phrasing it. Also, #whyweneedfeminism. Because of men like Ray Palmer who WILL NOT LET US SAY NO.

      And that could have been okay if his behavior had been addressed. If he'd been told that what he was doing was unacceptable. Instead, Felicity protested in the very beginning, but her objections were framed by him as a response to him taking the company from Oliver, as if she wouldn't have objected without this negative bias towards him. And then, at least in his mind, he was proved right by her eventual acceptance of his advances.

      And then when he's introduced to the Flash Gang, it became clear that the showrunners and writers themselves don't think his behavior was unacceptable when they added in the line from Felicity claiming the way they got together was "way less creepy than it sounds."


      Oh gosh, I had almost forgotten about that whole conversation in The Flash. Thank you for reminding me. Yeah, the writers saw NO problem with it. Marc Guggenheim thought it was appalling that anyone would think Ray was a stalker/creepy. I think if they would have taken a step back to examine how he was coming across instead of how they WANTED him to come across, they would have seen it clearly. But you're right -- they thought there was nothing wrong with him and it continued the problematic cycle.

      Ray's story never seemed to further anything on Arrow at all, other than his own story.

      My friend Jen and I were texting about this recently and she said that if Ray was supposed to exist as a foil for Oliver, he should have had more of a purpose in Oliver's journey, especially in his journey to identity. But nothing Ray did ended up aiding in the decisions Oliver made at the end of the season. So... what WAS his point then, exactly? You and I may never know.

      I felt a lot of Season Three was stalled out along the season, especially as they continued to just draaaaaaaag on the Hong Kong nonsence. Ray's story, and his lack of any interaction with anyone save Felicity, just felt like another stall.

      Let us all never have to see a Hong Kong flashback again, please. PLEASE.

      Thanks so much for your comments! :)

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  4. I think the switch from professional to romantic interests was done so poorly that the romantic story felt off from the start. People with their level of tech savvy can ping phones and maneuver on the verge of stalking over technical expertise, and it can be seen as respect for each other's abilities and a recognition that their professional duo status could produce more than they could have ever produced alone. If it never went past technical desires, I think Ray could have evolved more easily into the billionaire with more gadgets than sense. Writing the romantic plot line just didn't work, because they never had a moment where they really tied off the professional process so it bled into the romantic storyline and made it creepy.

    So the question is, why did they do that? Since he was going on to the next spinoff, they needed to flesh him out more, and they made a mess of it in the process. The entire story didn't help Arrow. What the ended up doing was finding something that made Hong Kong backstory feel like a break from the Ray/Felicity romantic bleh.

    Otherwise, I 100% agree with everything in this column.

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    1. People with their level of tech savvy can ping phones and maneuver on the verge of stalking over technical expertise, and it can be seen as respect for each other's abilities and a recognition that their professional duo status could produce more than they could have ever produced alone. If it never went past technical desires, I think Ray could have evolved more easily into the billionaire with more gadgets than sense. Writing the romantic plot line just didn't work, because they never had a moment where they really tied off the professional process so it bled into the romantic storyline and made it creepy.

      Well, yeah, but this wasn't Cisco admiring Felicity as an equal or Felicity and the Bug-Eyed Bandit duking it out. This was a guy who was (as someone pointed out above) asserting his dominance over Felicity from the get-go. He wanted something from her. He didn't want her as a partner at first but as someone whose skill set he could utilize (for his own personal gain, mind you). Only in the romantic part of our story did the stalking/pinging become more prevalent. Ugh.

      They should have never pursued a romance. It served NO purpose for Felicity (who was already in love with Oliver and didn't really need Ray to figure that out in the end) and none for Oliver's trajectory. The most integral interactions Ray had with characters while on the series were with Cisco and OH WAIT. THAT WASN'T EVEN TECHNICALLY ON THIS SHOW.

      Matt, when you can figure out a purpose for Ray on Arrow other than setting up the spin-off, I am all ears because I am seriously coming up blank on this one.

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  5. I wonder if TPTB will ever address the "Ray can be a won't take no creeper sometimes" thing. It really put me off when he said "most women would be flattered" comment. Like I said above I think episode 2 made me dislike Ray the MOST. It wasn't cute in any way and Ray ended up "winning" by Felicity choosing to work there.

    ...Jen I've become almost zen about Ray but you've brought up all my issues with him again! Darn it.

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