Thursday, March 5, 2015

Suits 4x16 "Not Just A Pretty Face" (Don't Let The Moment Pass)


"Not Just A Pretty Face"
Original Airdate: March 4, 2015

We all need people in our lives for different reasons.

I have two really close friends that I work with: Kate and Heather. Kate is sweet but she's also tough. She's the person I need in my life because she's taught me how to stand up for myself more and to not be afraid to have an opinion. She's also the person who will always encourage me to go to the gym. Heather, meanwhile, is more emotional: she's the one I turn to when I'm having a bad day and need some encouragement or when I want to talk about fashion. I love them both but I need them for different reasons. In the season four finale of Suits, the main theme of the episode is about needing other people. It's about how far we will go to keep the people we care about in our lives. Let me give you a run-down of the plot now, because we'll spend a lot of time talking about characters in the coming paragraphs: Sean Cahill (head of the SEC) is in a bit of a bind because he can't find the dirty money that Charles Forstman gave to Eric Woodall. If he doesn't find the money, they won't be able to prosecute Forstman and both he and Woodall will walk away clean. Sean is desperate and enlists Harvey's help to find the money. As it turns out, Harvey and Forstman had a convoluted past (Harvey trusted him and got too close, then was exploited and blackmailed by Forstman because Harvey needed money to give to his brother) and therefore, Harvey is hesitant to make the same mistake twice. Mike and Rachel then make it their jobs (literally) to find out where that missing money went. As they soon discover, it is going to pay for treatment for Eric Woodall's first wife who suffers from Alzheimer's. And that's when Harvey discovers the reason why he won't turn on Forstman: he has too much at stake. Back at Pearson Specter Litt, Norma suddenly dies, leaving Louis an angry, grieving mess and Donna cleaning up the pieces and helping her friend for the time being. Elsewhere in the episode, Jessica is still trying to recover from her break-up with Jeff. It's not going super well.

The point of "Not Just A Pretty Face" was that people are put into our lives for reasons and often, we have the tendency to ignore those reasons or to presume that those people will always be there; that we can just wake up and pick up wherever we left off. People need other people, and no one realizes this in the season finale more than those characters at Pearson Specter Litt.

Jessica

If you don't feel really bad for Jessica in "Not Just A Pretty Face," you probably are a robot. What's so amazing about Jessica Pearson -- in a few words -- is that she's resilient and she's driven and often, that's a really good thing. But the problem in this episode is that she's literally watching her entire world crumble around her: she watched them scrape Jeff's name off the door and just like that, to her, it's finally real. He's not coming back this time. What's so wonderful and beautiful and painful about her story this year is that she figured she would always have time with Jeff. That she would have time to make it right and tell him the truth, but she realized too late that she should have been honest with him from the start. If she had, maybe she wouldn't have lost him.

(Funnily enough, that's going to be the major theme of Harvey/Donna in this episode.)

Jessica tells Harvey, in a beautiful little moment of honesty, that her head isn't right. She's still mourning the loss of her relationship. She's not okay. And in that moment, all of Jessica's walls are down and she's the most vulnerable we have ever seen her. Nothing humbles us more like a loss and nothing reveals our truest selves like losing someone we love (either permanently or temporarily, by death or another separation -- again, it's a theme that spans this entire episode). Jessica had difficulty letting herself be emotional and vulnerable, but in "Not Just A Pretty Face," she is resigned and humbled and I think it's really important that she took a look at the drinks on her office table near the end of the episode after she passed by Jeff's darkened office. You could tell that she wanted to take one more drink so that she didn't have to feel the pain of him leaving. But instead, Jessica picks up her coat and walks out of her office. That was such an underrated and important moment because it represented her CHOOSING to feel the pain and dealing with it, rather than masking it and hiding behind a drink.

There wasn't much of Jessica in the rest of the episode, but I sincerely appreciated that emotional moment and thought it was really powerful.

Mike/Rachel

I've never really been a fan of Mike and Rachel, romantically. The danced around the will-they-won't-they for a really long time and then when they finally got together, their relationship became strained and a little bit toxic and Rachel kissed Logan (which I'm still trying to forget about). As working partners and associates, I think Mike and Rachel make a pretty decent team. They're no Harvey/Mike, but they're smart enough to be able to come up with solutions to their problems. Rachel is a lot more emotional than Mike is, so she forms attachments to cases, like in this episode. She doesn't want to tell Harvey where Forstman's money is going because it may mean that a woman with Alzheimer's doesn't get to stay in a nice facility with good treatment. And then Mike tells her that what happens to Woodall's former wife isn't up to them. It's only their job to tell the truth.

Ever since their rocky second go-around at their relationship this season, Mike and Rachel have been committed to being honest with each other, which is admirable. If you really think about it and draw the comparisons, while Mike and Rachel are being upfront and not hiding behind feelings or emotions, Harvey and Donna are still doing the exact opposite -- dancing around theirs. So when Louis gives his heartfelt eulogy for Norma, we see that Mike and Rachel hold hands because they realize how lucky they are to have a second chance at their relationship. They recognize the importance of communication and honesty (and I hope it stays that way). Essentially, Harvey now realizes that if he tells Rachel something, Mike will know. And vice versa. I may not be a fan of the pairing itself, but I AM a fan of their commitment to being a unit and a team both in and outside of work.

Mike proposes to Rachel at the end of this episode and it's a touching little moment because Mike realizes how far they've both come in their journey as a couple and how much they have left to look forward to together, side-by-side. As long as they remember that they're always stronger together than they are apart, I think Mike and Rachel will be okay.

Louis (+ Donna)

I think I've mentioned before that I absolutely love Louis and Donna's relationship, which is why "This Is Rome" absolutely BROKE me in terms of their friendship. I love how abrasive Louis is and the fact of the matter is that very few people can tolerate or regulate him. But Donna is one of them. They've had amazingly connected moments and I think that why the flashbacks were so important in "Not Just A Pretty Face" are because they exemplified how much Donna is needed by certain people. In the past, Harvey needed her. He needed her to make coffee and to tell her what to do. Now it's Louis's turn to be needed. When Norma dies, he refuses to acknowledge his grief and the one person who stands beside him even when he's cursing and yelling at her is Donna. DONNA is the one who understands why Louis is upset. DONNA is the one who talks him down and who is there to console him. No one else apart from Donna is as compassionate toward Louis (except maybe Rachel, to a degree. And Katrina. But she's not around anymore.) or as understanding. She's patient with him because she understands his grief even when he cannot understand it himself.

And I think that this (couple with the complexity between her and Harvey) is what drives Donna to Louis as his secretary. She knows that he needs her. Harvey needed her once to be his moral compass, to be his secretary, to be his everything. And now? Now, Donna is unwilling to be his everything with nothing in return for her. She knows that Louis needs her more than Harvey does at this point. She knows that Louis respects and trusts her and she knows that she is probably the only person in the entire office he feels that way about. HE wants to fight for her to be his secretary. HE realizes how valuable she is and doesn't want to see her go. HE puts his feelings on the line (okay, those feelings are platonic, but still). And that's what Donna realizes throughout this episode: Louis needs her. And she needs to be there for him.

I can't wait to see Louis and Donna's relationship continue throughout season five. I loved how vulnerable and raw and emotional and angry he is over losing Norma and it was extremely touching to see him confess how much she meant to him -- that she was a pain, but that he was HER pain and now, he'll never be able to hear her annoying stories again and that really pains him. I loved seeing him process his grief thanks to Donna's help. I love how she's the one person he can be completely honest and open to without hesitation or fear of judgement. Louis and Donna are at the point right now in Suits that they really and truly need each other. And I love that.

Harvey/Donna

Before we delve too deeply into the Harvey/Donna of it all, let me first explain why sometimes showrunners and writers frustrate me by using an example from Community that happened two years ago. If you don't watch the series, I'll break it down for you pretty simply (and if you do, you already likely know this): Jeff Winger and Annie Edison are two characters on the series who have a lot of chemistry and who have been in a will-they-won't-they relationship for years. Nothing has really developed apart from two passionate kisses in season one (which was in 2010, so if you think you know anything about shipper pain, think again because Jeff/Annie fans have had it worse). In season four of Community, an episode was devoted to Annie mistakenly being referred to as Jeff's wife while on vacation. She played along with the charade (going so far as to basically spending the entire episode having the hotel staff convinced she was his wife so that things got zany and wacky when Jeff was flirting with another woman in the hotel lobby) and eventually, Jeff found out what Annie was doing. The two had a confrontation and then a discussion.

This conversation then occurred:




Now, the reason I bring this up is because Andy Bobrow (who was the head writer on staff, in the wake of Dan Harmon's firing) poked and prodded at some shippers who were tweeting him (in his defense, they were being pretty antagonistic toward him) and told us that the scene above wasn't meant to be romantic or flirtatious and that Jeff probably left feeling ashamed of the whole thing. It left us all feeling a bit betrayed. Why? Because what the writer intended and what the actors conveyed did not mesh. At all. Bobrow and Maggie Bandur insisted that this scene wasn't meant to have any romantic subtext or implications, but the way Joel McHale played Jeff Winger in those moments clearly was anything BUT platonic. He was sweet and genuine and concerned about Annie. He told her that if they were married, he would never have eyes for anyone but her.

And that's what really angered fans the most, I think, was the fact that if the scene wasn't supposed to be romantic, then someone should have told the actors to dial it back or to read the lines differently. But they didn't, and the truth of the matter is that no one can look at those scenes and tell me that Jeff was just being platonic with her, that he had no real feelings.

(Hope for Harvey/Donna fans: it's taken years, but finally last season Dan Harmon, the showrunner, was willing to admit that Jeff loved Annie. I mean, the writers are terrible about following through with anything romantic on Community so it probably won't mean much, but it took five years for them to acknowledge that there was something important and real there. Maybe five will be a magic number for Harvey/Donna, too.)

This all reminds me of what's happening with Aaron Korsh, which is why (obviously) I bring up #Bobrowgate, as we affectionately named it. (I STILL LOVE YOU, ANDY.) Showrunners and writers can insist all they would like that their scenes are platonic -- that Jeff feels ashamed of the things he said to Annie or that Harvey told Donna he loved her just to placate her and make her feel better, but then the ways that these actors play those scenes tell a different story. And I'm much more inclined to believe the actors because they're the ones who understand these characters the best. (Sorry there, writers.)

So this brings us to Harvey and Donna, whose relationship is the swing on which Suits hinges on in "Not Just A Pretty Face." After the bombshell that Harvey dropped last week, this episode picks up moments afterward as he gets into a car and leaves the apartment, evidently still thinking about what just happened. Harvey and Donna are distracted by their cases and Louis, respectively, for a majority of the episode. But when Donna finally confronts Harvey about his dropped "I love you," it's beautiful and wonderful. Donna Paulsen is a strong female character. I love and admire her because she's not afraid to be bold and she's not afraid to be honest. That's something that Mike and Rachel have now that Donna wants: she wants Harvey to stop hiding behind excuses; to stop placating her or making her feel better. Because that's not real and that's not honest. In the flashbacks, we see how upfront these two used to be with each other -- how there were no facades and no feelings and no history to hide behind.

Harvey is afraid. He's a great lawyer and he's strong in a lot of ways, but his biggest fear is losing someone he loves. That's why he worked so hard in the flashbacks to protect Marcus and defend him. He wants to keep the people that he loves close to him at whatever cost he can. But now? Now he's told Donna how he feels and he can't backpedal from that. He can't keep expecting her to stay around, waiting for the day when maybe -- one day -- he'll be honest. And why should we expect her to? Why should we expect Donna to stay by Harvey's side, content with occasional half-admissions and kinda-truths. We shouldn't. SHE shouldn't. And she isn't.

All Donna wants from Harvey is honesty, but he can't even give that to her. When she asks him what his "I love you" meant, he can't tell her. And then he tells her that it's because she was feeling bad and he wanted to make her feel better. And that sets Donna off, understandably, so he backpedals (so much backpedaling, Harvey, that you basically dug your own grave). Donna is appalled that he could be that calloused with her feelings, and Harvey knows he made a mistake. So he tells her, again, that he loves her and that's it. He just wanted her to know. But when Donna presses further, Harvey retreats because that's what he does: he can't risk losing Donna, so he'll string her along with the occasional heartfelt moment or deep conversation or "I love you." But Donna-mother-effing-Paulsen doesn't wait around for any man. She's stronger than that and she deserves much more than someone's pity.

Here's the thing: Harvey is reaping all of the benefits of his relationship with Donna because he's calling all of the shots. When he tells her that they already have everything in their relationship, she retorts: "No, YOU have everything." He pulls the strings. He is honest and vulnerable with her whenever HE feels like putting down his walls. And he has it all: a secretary, a best friend, a partner, a woman he cares for who does whatever it takes to help him. And what does Donna have? Well, there's no doubt in my mind that she cares about Harvey but she also has half-truths and half-promises and maybes and sort-of-confessions. She only has what Harvey is willing to give her. And that's just not enough for her anymore.

A very similar thing has happened this year on Arrow with Oliver and Felicity that it's impossible to watch that scene and not think of them. Oliver calls all the shots in his relationship with Felicity. He kisses her, then pushes her away. He tells her that he loves her, then he leaves. And who is left to clean up the messy, broken, confusing pieces? Felicity. Oliver isn't risking it all -- FELICITY is. And Felicity is losing, more than winning these days when it comes to their romantic relationship. So she walks away. She tells him in "The Calm" that as soon as they talked, she knew it would be over. She tells him in "Sara" that she will not sit around in the foundry and wait for him. She values herself too much to do that, even for a man that she loves. Donna Paulsen, similarly, knows that she deserves more than Harvey is willing to give her and that the only person suffering in the relationship currently is herself. She is the one with the emotional whiplash. And she just can't do that anymore.

At the end of "Not Just A Pretty Face," Harvey begins to apologize to Donna. He starts to explain to her what he meant earlier and you can tell, in that moment, that he's about to explain away the "I love you" -- that he's prepared a speech to tell her, similar to when he told her that her being with Stephen bothered him but that it didn't MEAN anything. Harvey is ready to reset their balance again, and that's really what he wants. He wants to make things right. And to him, making things right means restoring the status quo, not being honest. But Louis warned everyone during his eulogy earlier in the episode what would happen if you didn't tell the person you loved most how you felt: the moment would pass you by and you would lose them.

I don't think Harvey ever thought he could lose Donna until last week. When that became a very real possibility, he broke. He actually broke. His walls came tumbling down around his heart because he recognized the fact that he could lose her and she would never know how he felt. And you can tell me all you would like, Aaron Korsh, that Donna and Harvey are platonic: that he doesn't know if she's "the one." I would actually agree with you. I don't think Harvey knows whether or not she's the one for him. I do think, however, that what he knows (clearly conveyed by the script, directing, and acting) is that he loves her and he can't lose her. And it's not a platonic love, either. To quote my favorite romantic comedy (How to Lose A Guy in 10 Days):
"I'm talking about deep, meaningful, head-over-heels, his-and-her towels, let's-grow-old-together L-O-V-E."
Just like Oliver presumed Felicity would always be there, waiting in the foundry for him -- for whenever HE was ready to be emotionally vulnerable and honest and ready -- Harvey expected that Donna would always just BE there for him to have, should he ever want her. At the end of the episode, as Harvey is beginning to explain away his confession, Donna stops him mid-sentence, mid-excuse. It's wonderful because it's DONNA calling the shots. And when she calls the shots, she tells him that she's leaving him.

That is when Harvey's entire world begins to implode.

She tells him that she's not quitting, but that she's working for Louis. Their arrangement? It's not working for her anymore. She can't do this thing anymore with him. She can't just push this back inside of her and pretend it didn't happen or brush it aside or explain it away like Harvey can. She doesn't deserve that. And if Harvey can't give everything to her in return for everything she's given to him, then what is the point? What is the point of staying around someone day after day who loves you but can't let you in? Who builds up walls faster than you can break them down? It's this amazing moment reminiscent of Felicity's tearful confrontation with Oliver in "Sara." Donna loves Harvey. But she loves herself more. And she loves herself too much to let herself be repeatedly hurt by his decisions and his string-pulling on their relationship.

Harvey's world, as I said above, begins to fall down around him. Because of all the constants in his life, knowing Donna would always be there ranks pretty high up, if not at the top. And I think he believed that what they had was enough for both of them --  but what he knows in "Not Just A Pretty Face" is that it IS enough... for him. But it's not enough for her anymore. It's not enough to know he loves her, but for him to not be able to tell her HOW. It's not enough to hear those words and then hear them explained away. As he watches his world crumble, he desperately tries one last time to pick up the pieces by pleading with her.


And what I think is so brilliant is the way that Sarah Rafferty delivered her final line: she says "I love you, Harvey" with this desperation in her eyes but a hint of a smile. And then she walks away. It's so important because it's a bomb exactly like Felicity dropped on Oliver. In fact, it's basically the same bomb, with slightly (only slightly) different context:
"So that's it? [...] I'm sorry. I'm not gonna wait with you. Because if there's one thing that today has taught me, it is that life is precious. And I want so much more of mine than this."
Donna and Felicity both leave the men that they love, not because they don't love them but because they DO. Felicity loves Oliver but she can't be the girl who waits; Donna loves Harvey but she can't be the person who stays on his hook until HE decides what they are. So they both walk away leaving the men that they love in tears.


It takes a strong character to be vulnerable enough to be in love with someone.

It takes an even stronger character to realize that they love themselves too much to stay. That is who Donna Paulsen is. And that is how we end this season.

And now, bonus points:
  • MVPs for this episode: 1) Rick Hoffman for that amazing, fabulous, emotional performance. Goodness, when Louis started yelling and thinking Donna was Norma and then broke down, I actually teared up. I really did. That was so raw and so vulnerable and so great to see Louis come undone at the thought of losing someone who annoyed him -- because they were still HIS person. 2) Sarah Rafferty for her fantastic scenes as Donna in this episode, both in and outside of the flashbacks. I loved seeing how playful and yet insightful Donna was when she met Harvey. She can read people like no one else. But the end scene of this episode and the confrontation between Harvey and Donna where she essentially told him off for trying to skirt around her feelings and using "I love you" as an excuse to pity her... dang. Sarah Rafferty has been at the top of her game in the past few episodes. No one can portray such a strong, layered, vulnerable, emotional chararacter like this woman can. 3) Gabriel Macht for that fantastic final scene. You can see Harvey process the pain and the shock and the fear and the heartbreak of losing Donna. It was absolutely beautiful and gut-wrenching.
  • I love that we got flashbacks when it wasn't even our flashback-centric episode of the season! YAY. Also, Harvey and Donna's first meeting was just as perfect as you would hope it could be.
  • Kudos to my brilliant commenters who essentially predicted how this would all play out (Norma dying, Harvey skirting around his feelings, Donna being fed up and leaving him for Louis). You guys are the best. And I would like to think that Gabriel Macht was talking about last week's review in this interview. (Delusional!... Though, maybe not.)
  • "You have no idea how Donna I am." Can I marry her, please?
  • "You're not just a pretty face, are you?" "No, I'm not."
  • "You look... different." I love awkward!Harvey showing up at Mike and Rachel's place.
  • "You want a chance to exist? Find out a way to get this done."
  • I'm actually really sad that Norma died. She was one of my favorite things about this show -- the fact that we never saw her or heard from her, just heard ABOUT her made the entire set-up ten times more hilarious.
  • We finally met Harvey's brother in the flashbacks! Also, in the present-day when Harvey calls up Marcus, we learn that he's married with kids. SO THAT MEANS HARVEY HAS NIECES AND NEPHEWS. 
  • "So do what you're gonna do. Don't say I didn't warn you."
  • "Oh, because she was his secretary, he MUST have loved her." I wanted to give Donna a standing ovation at this line and everything else that followed.
  • "No, I said it because I love you and I wanted you to know it."
  • "Because we have everything." "No, YOU have everything." BLESS DONNA PAULSEN TO ETERNITY.
  • "We're not married." "... Okay, I really don't think this is the time to bring that up..." #foreshadowing
  • "Are you asking me to follow him?" "I'm telling you to follow him."
  • Things that are not platonic: Harvey and Donna looking at each other when Louis said the following: "Don’t let the moment pass. Don’t let the people you love walk by you without you letting them know how you feel about them, because life slips by and then it’s over."
  • Mike proposed to Rachel. I wish I cared more about this/them. But what I do care about is that really pretty ring. CAN I HAVE IT?
  • "Donna. Donna, please." "I love you, Harvey." The parallelism of them both saying "I love you" to each other in the last two episodes and then walking away is heartbreaking and beautiful. And Gabriel Macht's face when she said that and walked away? God, someone hand that man an award.
Well, folks, that is it for this season of Suits! Who's excited for the summer? Share your predictions and your thoughts in the comments below or hit me up on Twitter, too! Until then. :)

161 comments:

  1. Hi. I'm your newest fan. I read your review of Intent and as soon as I saw this episode I was just waiting for your review! I agree 100% with everything you've said and starting tomorrow I'm going to go through everything you've ever written about suits!

    I was hoping you could clarify something that's been eating away at my brain since I saw the episode. I'm just really confused, even after the review:

    Did Harvey say ILY out of pity? Common sense tells me he didn't because Harvey knows that Donna is the last person who needs anyone's pity, but...it certainly sounded like that when he said that he said it to make her feel better. Plus, Donna immediately goes down the pity route and Donna is always spot on about what Harvey is thinking so.....did he really mean it that way? I'M SO CONFUSED.

    Please explain this to me pleeeeaaase!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hello lovely Anon! First of all: welcome! I hope that you enjoy your stay here at Just About Write, where we have a blast talking in-depth about stuff like this, haha.

      Okay, so here's my take on what Harvey meant: he did say "I love you" because he wanted Donna to feel better, but that's not the ONLY reason he said it. If you watch the scene again, he says something I put in my notes: "No, I said it because I love you and I wanted you to know it." Okay, good. We're on a good path here. So Harvey isn't lying, first of all. He really does love Donna.

      Let's break down the reasons why Harvey said it:

      1) He has romantic feelings for Donna and they bubbled to the surface when he thought he would lose her + because they were drinking and laughing and he wanted to make her feel safe. This is pretty hard to deny. I don't buy the whole "Harvey and Donna are platonic" business because of all the drippingly romantic things he has said to her, especially in that episode. Harvey doesn't let people in, even Donna, a lot of the time. He keeps his emotions guarded. And the moment he finally let them down was the moment he said "I love you." Then his walls went right back up when he realized there would be fallout. So he backpedaled. A lot.

      2) Harvey wanted to make Donna feel better. Yes, I do believe he wanted to make her feel as safe (remember: "I told you I'd never let anything happen to you. And I won't. Ever. So you don't ever have to feel scared like that again.") and he wanted to tell her how much it meant to him, the thought of losing her. It may be a truth, but it's not the WHOLE truth, in my opinion. It's what Harvey uses to justify how he feels for her without their relationship changing. Does that make sense?

      In other words, Harvey had a moment where he was vulnerable and honest and then when confronted about such honesty, he tip-toed around the reason he really said it. I think he keeps pressing down feelings for Donna and excusing his behavior and his emotions. He's worried about her? It's because he cares; because she's his friend. Oh, he's jealous of Stephen? Well it bothers him but it doesn't MEAN anything. Those are ways to bury how he truly feels: they're half-truths.

      And Donna sees right through him and he sees right through them. Because when she asks: "Love me HOW?" he cannot answer her. Because if he answers one way (the way he knows is most honest), it'll be a whole mess of things. And Harvey doesn't want to talk about his emotions and his feelings for her. And if he answers a different way, he's potentially diminishing those words. So he says nothing. And Donna knows why he's saying nothing, but it doesn't stop her from asking because for once, she thought, that if he said those words maybe he's willing to be totally honest with her. Instead, he backtracks at the end of the episode, trying desperately to tell her that he loves her but that it doesn't MEAN he loves her in THAT WAY. If he says that, they can go back to "normal." He can pretend he never said it and his feelings don't exist.

      But what he doesn't count on is Donna's inability to accept the status quo any more. And that's when you can see how he realizes that if he could just vocalize how he feels and figure his crap out, maybe he wouldn't have lost her.

      I HOPE THAT MAKES SENSE. It makes a lot of sense in my head but that's sometimes a very jumbled and messy place to be. ;)

      By the way, welcome again! And thank you for being so thoughtful and so supportive. :)

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    2. Hi, I'm the Anon who asked the pity question!

      Ok, so you're saying he WASN'T really saying it out of pity? He was saying it to her to make her feel safe?

      As much as I'd prefer this explanation to the pity explanation, I don't really get it. I mean Donna is already feeling much better - she's laughing and joking and life is good again for her.I feel like she already felt safe....so he wouldn't have to tell her he loves her just to make her feel safe.

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    3. My take - Harvey was turning down her invitation to stay. Donna opened the door to break her rule and Harvey declined to walk through it. If he was trying to make her feel better, it was about rejecting that invitation - not about the earlier events. He was trying to say he didn't need to sleep with her - he loves her - but she was right about the rule and they should stick to it.

      Delete
    4. I kinda disagree ... I don't think he said it out of pity at all.

      I think when he told her he loved her, he was just being (recklessly) honest. Because the whole episode, he was having to face exactly how much he cared about her and that made his (latent) feelings come to the surface. And she already made him admit to her how much he cared - twice (to me, they're the same thing; the thought of you going to prison makes me want to drop to my knees). The point is, it was all up there in his consciousness as opposed to his subconscious and he couldn't ignore it like he usually does.

      Anyway, all of a sudden he's in her apartment (which doesn't happen) and they're hanging out, and then he's all prepared to tell her he'll never let anything happen to her, but then she apologises and he apologises and he's telling her it's different with her... what I'm trying to say is that he quite simply got caught up in the moment and was honest.

      Then as soon as he left, he freaked out. You could see how he was in shock, how broody he was both at the end of 15 and the beginning of 16. And in typical Harvey fashion (and as was said in the review) he just backpedaled, wanting to take back what happened and go back to normal. So when she confronted him, his immediate reaction was defensive and to deny everything ... which is why he just blurted out that he said it to make her feel better. And Donna interprets that as him pitying her because, I think, that's what she was most afraid of.

      I mean when he says that, he sounds harsh and it doesn't have the ring of truth to it, and he takes it back immediately when he realises his mistake, and tells her the truth about why he said it. And after that their conversation, although heated, was refreshingly honest. Yeah, I don't think he said it out of pity.

      Anyway, that's what I think.

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    5. I like this explanation better, and it's what I originally thought while watching the episode...I'm just not sure it goes with the rest of the conversation. Because Harvey said "nothing happened last night" and she says "Why?" and then he says "because it would have been a mistake and you know it".

      So in the context of these lines, it really does sound like he'd just rejected her apparent sexual advances or something, and then he said ILY...to make her feel better i.e. out of pity.

      I'm now convinced the writers are screwing with us on purpose. There's so many double-meanings in these conversations it's insane. Like they haven't really decided which way they wanna go with these two so they make them make ambiguous statements.

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    6. I'm now convinced the writers are screwing with us on purpose. There's so many double-meanings in these conversations it's insane. Like they haven't really decided which way they wanna go with these two so they make them make ambiguous statements.

      I think you may be right on the nose with this one. That's what is so utterly frustrating about this season in terms of writing and development with these two -- it doesn't seem like Korsh knows exactly what he wants them to be yet so he's trying to placate both sides by giving us moments and then saying they don't mean anything or they don't mean what we think they mean (oh god, I just had Jeff/Annie flashbacks all over again because that is EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM).

      Other Anon:

      Then as soon as he left, he freaked out. You could see how he was in shock, how broody he was both at the end of 15 and the beginning of 16. And in typical Harvey fashion (and as was said in the review) he just backpedaled, wanting to take back what happened and go back to normal. So when she confronted him, his immediate reaction was defensive and to deny everything ... which is why he just blurted out that he said it to make her feel better. And Donna interprets that as him pitying her because, I think, that's what she was most afraid of.

      This is my interpretation. He was being honest but I do think a part of him wanting to make her feel safe and cared about is true. He spent the entire episode telling everyone ELSE how he felt about Donna, that in her apartment, it was the first time he was telling HER. And like you said, the fact that he told everyone else meant that it was really at the forefront of his mind the entirety of the episode and just bubbled up. He wanted HER to know how he felt and then he realized it was a moment of emotional unguardeness (we're pretending that's a word) and he couldn't deal with the fallout from that so he did what he does all the time, even with her: he skirts around the issue.

      (By the way, I just got back from a weekend vacation and man, you guys are AMAZING. And so insightful. Imma try to respond to as many comments as I possibly can, haha.)

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    7. Hello, this is Other Anon again :-)

      I see your point there about the rest of the conversation, but I'm not sure I agree. Obviously in the moment, Harvey was feeling a very strong emotional pull into going somewhere with Donna. She was just sitting there, really. He was the one making emotional statements and eyes at her, and then he was the one who realised what might be about to happen on his side and said he had better go - before HE did something. Then, as I said above, he honestly told her why.

      I think for him, "nothing happened last night" was from his own point of view. HE had wanted something more to happen and HE managed to stop it. It's what he's clinging to ... he's still hoping it can all go back to normal, and that they can discount his I love you as some sort of game changer.

      I really don't see his I love you as a form of comfort at all ... I just think he couldn't bring himself to lie. It was almost like ... he was exasperated at her asking him why, exasperated at her demanding the truth as usual in a moment that he was trying to protect them from, and so he just told her. I really feel that from how he delivered the line, with the "you know" and that slightly matter of fact tone, and the head tilt (never underestimate the head tilt).

      Anyway, so now he's trying to explain why he doesn't want to pursue anything, why "nothing happened" and why "it would've been a mistake". He's not letting her down - and I doubt he sees it that way - but he IS being forced to address something emotional head on, and I truly think it's almost like any other argument he has with her about something emotional. She forces him to face what he's really feeling, he usually denies it with a bunch of bullshit and then in the end completely proves her right.

      What I liked in this scene was that he turned around and stopped bullshitting almost immediately, rather than waiting for the end of the episode. (By the end there, I think he had just regressed back again).

      I think the pity thing is actually all in Donna's head ... she has so much dignity, and she has always hated the thought of someone thinking of her as being secretly and unrequitedly in love with Harvey. She doesn't want to be put in a position where she feels that way or feels that someone else thinks of her that way, which is why she's so super ultra defensive about it. Especially if she thinks Harvey thinks that, which he doesn't (you saw how astounded he was at the thought that she thought that).

      My point is, I don't think we should be taking every word Harvey says in a first-pass confrontation of his feelings as accurate. He's usually just hiding behind words until the truth comes out later.

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    8. I think for him, "nothing happened last night" was from his own point of view. HE had wanted something more to happen and HE managed to stop it. It's what he's clinging to ... he's still hoping it can all go back to normal, and that they can discount his I love you as some sort of game changer.

      I think I agree with you to a point but I think the "nothing happened last night" was more of a way for him to skirt around explaining the ILY than anything else, right? Because essentially what he's doing (and why Donna gets so frustrated) is avoiding explaining what he meant. He could have easily said: "I didn't mean it," but he doesn't. Because he DID mean it. What he meant though, I think (where I think your interpretation and mine merge) is that: "Nothing happened because... those were just words." Nothing ACTUALLY happened which is Harvey's way of justifying blowing it all off. They didn't kiss. They didn't sleep together. She didn't say it back. Bam, done, case closed, they can forget it happened.

      But Donna can't forget it because you can't just SAY those things and then refuse to be honest because you don't want to be or because it'll complicate your relationship (earth to Harvey: your relationship with Donna is already complicated). That's when her frustration begins to mount, culminating in him being unable to tell her how he loves her. It's not that she wants him to say: "I love you romantically," it's just she wants him to say: "Let's figure this out together." And he doesn't. He calls their shots so it's a one-sided relationship and Donna has absolutely no say or control in it. So she walks.

      I think the pity thing is actually all in Donna's head ... she has so much dignity, and she has always hated the thought of someone thinking of her as being secretly and unrequitedly in love with Harvey. She doesn't want to be put in a position where she feels that way or feels that someone else thinks of her that way, which is why she's so super ultra defensive about it. Especially if she thinks Harvey thinks that, which he doesn't (you saw how astounded he was at the thought that she thought that).

      BEAUTIFUL AND PERFECT, ANON. BEAUTIFUL AND PERFECT PARAGRAPH. It shocked me in the best way that we saw how vulnerable Donna was and then contrasted it with Harvey NOT being that way.

      You guys are so smart. Seriously.

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    9. No, yes, I TOTALLY agree with you, and that was also what I was trying to say. That he was saying nothing happened because to him, something would have been a kiss or sex or whatever. He wants to believe words don't count. Thanks for articulating that as well ... what I was really trying to say is that his saying nothing happened should not be interpreted as him rejecting Donna at all that night, because it wasn't like that. It was all on HIM, and it's only with this conversation now that it's more about her. And he can't even bring himself to reject her properly now, not even by pretending he didn't mean it. So yeah ... that was my main thing.

      Thanks, by the way, I'm enjoying being able to have this discussion with someone. Also, your review really helped how I felt after the episode because I was pretty upset with Donna for walking out. It's not that I didn't understand, but your review helped put it into words, and that did make things easier.

      :-)

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    10. :) :) :)

      Discussions are ALWAYS welcome here. I love when people analyze scenes and read about them as in-depth as I do. And this is the perfect place to facilitate those discussions!

      And he can't even bring himself to reject her properly now, not even by pretending he didn't mean it. So yeah ... that was my main thing.

      Right. I love Harvey but everything he did in that confrontation was cowardly because he didn't want to shake up the status quo of their relationship. I mean, he couldn't even bring himself to tell her HOW he loved her. He could have said: "I don't know! I'm feeling a lot of things right now toward you, Donna. Let's figure this out." Instead? Silence. And I think Donna saw that not as him rejecting her but as him rejecting there ever being a discussion of a "them." She doesn't even know if she WANTS there to be a "them," but Harvey isn't even willing to put down his walls long enough to figure it out. That's something he will have to get over if he ever wants to be in Donna's good graces again.

      JUST SPEAK FROM YOUR HEART, MAN.

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    11. Haha! Yeah, I also love discussing these things in depth with people who are just as interested as I am :D

      Yeah, I know, that silence thing. And it was silly, because I think we could all read his expression perfectly as, "You know how, but I'm not going to say it, am I?" I mean, one look at his face and she can see the truth. But as usual he won't talk about it. And you know, at the end when she went to tell him she was going to Louis, I think she was giving him a last chance to speak his mind/heart. She listened just long enough, but as soon as it became clear that he was going straight backto denial, she was like, "Okay, forget this, I'm leaving."

      But you know, I totally get why Harvey is so terrified. Obviously he doesn't want to risk the most important thing in his life, and I think I'd probably also be a bit cowardly in that situation. But ... it's ridiculous that he doesn't seem to trust that Donna would be just as careful to preserve their fundamental relationship as he is. You're right, she just needs him to be upfront with her, and not shut her out.

      SIGH.

      WHAT is up with having to wait 4 months for this to be addressed.

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    12. "You know how, but I'm not going to say it, am I?" I mean, one look at his face and she can see the truth. But as usual he won't talk about it. And you know, at the end when she went to tell him she was going to Louis, I think she was giving him a last chance to speak his mind/heart. She listened just long enough, but as soon as it became clear that he was going straight backto denial, she was like, "Okay, forget this, I'm leaving."

      YES THIS EXACTLY. She gave him the opportunity and he blew it. You could tell that Louis's words in the eulogy stirred him and we all knew Donna was thinking "MAYBE this will be the thing that gets him to be honest" (kind of like Felicity thought Oliver dying might, you know, change him in terms of their relationship), but when it became abundantly clear that Harvey wasn't going to do anything or say anything about their relationship, she cut him off and it was brilliant.

      I totally understand Harvey. It seems like I'm coming down harsh on him for being an idiot (because he is), but I genuinely do understand how hard it must be for him and how much he has to risk. Especially when you parallel it from the week before in that Donna is the ONE person he's never willing to risk getting hurt. So I get it. I do. But you're right -- Harvey needs to realize that it's not just about what HE wants but also what SHE wants.

      I can't believe we have to wait so long, so Suits better make it worth my while, lol.

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  2. I want to be Donna Paulsen when I grow up. She is just perfect. Her strength in this episode in dealing with both Louis and Harvey was just amazing to witness. I think Felicity and Donna went to the same school of life. Love yourself first. I'm so proud of my girls. It really takes a lot of courage to walk away from someone that you love because they aren't able to give you what you need. Harvey absolutely wanted everything to go back to the way it was before he dropped the ILY bomb, but that, coupled with facing prison last week, also made Donna take stock of her life. She realized that while all of Harvey's needs were being met in their current relationship, that her's weren't. I'm so hopeful that with some distance from Harvey, that Donna can find a better balance between work life and personal life. She deserves happiness in both.

    I dare anyone to look at the face of Harvey Specter in the final scene and tell me that his whole world isn't crumbling. Harvey had Donna for so long to run his work life, and explain his personal life. Donna was perfect for Harvey to keep in his life, but not have to risk his own feelings. Donna was just the constant. And now Harvey is going to have to face his world without her just being there. And I really don't think he knows how. It was so telling that for Harvey what they already had was everything he needed. And that's because Donna was the one doing all the giving. And Harvey was very comfortable just taking. Now he's going to have to decide what, if anything, he's willing to give Donna to keep her in his life. He's got to be terrified.

    Louis was fabulous. His affection for Norma, that he only really understood once she was gone, was beautiful. It was great that Mike and Rachel took Louis's words to heart, and reaffirmed their bond to each other. And it was too bad that Harvey, even when you could see that those words affected him, couldn't find the courage to do the same.

    If I can't be Donna Paulsen when I grow up, I may just settle for being Jessica Pearson. These women on Suits are FIERCE and yet they still manage to show moments of real emotion and vulnerability.

    I can't wait to see where this all goes next season. I don't expect that Harvey is going to find it easy to stop running to Donna with every issue. And I don't think he's going to take well to her being for Louis what she's always been for him. I can't wait to watch him seethe. :)

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    1. Rashell: First of all, welcome back! Ugh, I want to either be Donna or marry her. Or have her be my best friend. Okay, so like, three different options. Could you imagine a world where Felicity Smoak and Donna Paulsen existed in a scene together? Would that implode televisions from too much awesome? I love how strong those women are and like you mentioned, the fact that they learned to love themselves first. SO important.

      She realized that while all of Harvey's needs were being met in their current relationship, that her's weren't.

      Exactly! She totally recognized the fact that she was always there for him and honest and upfront with him to the best of her ability (IT'S OKAY TO SAY THAT YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU WANT, HARVEY, JUST STOP TRYING TO HIDE BEHIND EXCUSES), but he hasn't about their relationship which is extremely confusing and frustrating. I think Harvey believes he has to have an answer and a solution for everything which is why he's so quick to tell Donna that his feelings, while vocalized, don't mean what she thinks. And the reason he's so hesitant to be 100% real with her is that there IS no quick-fix if they go down the romantic road. And I don't think Harvey wants to think about dealing with that. As Donna said, though, she knows he's capable of looking at her that way so he should probably stop pretending he isn't.

      Man, that final scene was a stellar display of Gabriel Macht's subtle acting because he literally PLEADS for her to stay and then his face when she turns her back? Heartbreaking. So so heartbreaking because his entire world just walked away from him. I can't wait to see what that does to him, as a character, next season.

      Louis was so good this episode and so wonderful. I understand why Donna chose to be with him (Harvey drama aside) because they really do have a connection. And the person who needs her most of all is Louis, not Harvey. You know, someone who's going to give and take and not just, as you said, take.

      Why couldn't Harvey just apply Louis' words? Because we KNOW he felt stirred by them (hello, he looked directly at Donna during that speech), but he couldn't bring himself to do anything and BAM. Lost her. The Mike/Rachel stuff, though not my favorite, at least exemplifies the fact that they DID listen to Louis. So 1 point for them and zero for Harvey in this round.

      I can't wait to see what next season holds. It's not our typical "life-altering" finale moment, but it kinda is, when you think about it. Thanks again for reading and commenting! :)

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  3. This review is amazing! I absolutely agree with everything you said here. I especially love your analysis on that scene with Jessica. To me the most beautiful moment of the episode and honestly one of the best scenes this show has ever thehad is the bit when Louis is givinghis eulogy for Norma. The way that the camera panned from Mike and Rachel holding hands to Jessica's clouded features that were so clearly marked with heartbreak to Harvey and Donna glancing at each other, but not seeing the other person do it. That coupled with what Louis was saying about not letting the moment pass you by made for WONDERFUL television. Also found it so interesting to see the contrast between Mike and Harvey in this episode. This show has always been heavily focused on their relationship how they're alike and how they're different. And this episode really highlighted that. They both are incredible at what they do. But Mike did it with someone's help whereas Harvey was going at it alone in his Forstman ordeal. And Mike ended the episode at home, with Rachel kissing and crying out of joy because they're engaged. But Harvey ends the episode alone, in his office, crying watching Donna walk away from him.
    and everything you said about Donna in this episode was just spot on. That being said, I am still an ardent "Darvey" supporter because those two are just wonderful together and they have amazing chemistry and I'm very excited for the (angsty) road they're gonna be taking when season 5 rolls around.

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    1. Hi Anon! Thank you so much for your compliments and comments. I'm sincerely appreciative! (I almost typed "sinceriously," not even gonna lie.)

      That scene that you referenced? So beautifully done. I loved seeing the three different groups of people -- you had those in a happy relationship realizing they needed to hold onto each other; you had those who desperately wanted to be together but they missed each other (Harvey and Donna glancing at each other at different times was SO good), and then you had the one who realizes what she lost.

      I think you're absolutely spot-on when it comes to the Harvey/Mike parallels. The theme of being wholly honest with someone wasn't lost on me, especially since you have (as you astutely noted) Mike being totally honest with Rachel and then Harvey not being able to be honest with Donna. And you see two very different outcomes in those stories.

      I'm definitely a supporter of Harvey/Donna, but (much like Oliver/Felicity at the moment) I really want to see him fight for her. He did when it came to the trial, but I need him to fight for her emotionally and personally. Once he can be honest with her, they can move forward. Until then, he's gonna have to sit back and watch her be a part of someone else's life. Ouch.

      Again, thank you so much for your comment! :)

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  4. Well, since we have months to wait, lets do a little speculating of our own. How do you think this is going to go? Is Harvey going to come out pissed and ready to burn Louis, and maybe Donna, to the ground? Is he going to still think that if he just figures out the right strategy he can talk Donna back into the status quo? Is he going to try to just accept the new reality and work on life without Donna?

    My initial feeling is that he's going to be furious with Louis. It's way easier to blame Louis for this whole situation than to accept that he's actually the cause. I also see him often trying to go to Donna for assistance. She'll still be there, and he won't just accept the concept that she's no longer his. The real test is going to come on an issue where it's Louis vs. Harvey and Donna's right in the middle. Both men are going to expect her loyalty to be to them. Harvey isn't going to care who's secretary she is at the moment. In his mind, she's always going to be his first. And Louis, of course, is going to expect that now that she works for him, not Harvey, that he should be number one. Poor Donna. Now she's going to have two of them to try to take care of. And they're both extremely needy, just in different ways.

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    1. My initial feeling is that he's going to be furious with Louis. It's way easier to blame Louis for this whole situation than to accept that he's actually the cause.

      BAM. Exactly. I think that'll definitely happen. Because we all know Harvey: he gets irrationally angry. He gets angry at Mike in "Intent" because of how he's feeling about Donna being put in danger. He's no stranger to lashing out at other people for things he's either internalizing or that are out of his control. Korsh DID say that they would spend a few episodes with Donna and Louis working together because it feels cheap to unravel all of that emotional stuff in the first episode back, which I totally agree. I hate when shows hit reset buttons and like, entirely dismiss what happened the season prior.

      ANYWAY. I definitely don't think this is going to be as cut-and-dry for Donna as she thinks. Or as easy. She's still going to WANT to help Harvey, but she's going to maybe try to use Rachel to do it? I can see that happening. The kids getting put in the middle of the "dad" and "mom" fighting. ;)

      I do wonder what will bring her back. Will he tell her that he needs her in his life and explain what exactly that MEANS? I think right now if he's honest with her, that'll be a step. But until then, she doesn't want to be strung along (understandably so) by him without knowing what he's really feeling.

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    2. I just feel like that a line has been drawn by Donna, and I don't see her going back without some sort of give from Harvey. I don't think that she needs him to be ready to start a relationship, but I think she needs the honesty of him at least acknowledging that his feelings for her go beyond just friends. I think that Donna herself isn't totally sure that she wants to jump into a romance with Harvey. No one knows better than her how bad he is at that. But I think she wants it known between them that there feelings for each other go deeper than what Harvey has wanted to admit.

      And I totally see Mike and Rachel being used by them both to run interference. Neither one of them are really going to be able to just stay away from the other. Neither will resist trying to find a way into the other's business.

      I actually really want to see Donna and Louis really working together. I would LOVE it if the Donna magic finally helps Louis tap into some confidence. Wouldn't it be awesome to see Louis out gun Harvey with Donna at his side. Just once.

      Is Harvey going to spin out of control a little bit, too? He really doesn't know where to draw the line sometimes without Donna there to show him. Add into that his messy emotions about what they actual feel for each other, and I wonder if we aren't going to see a little bit of Harvey making mistakes.Is it terrible that I kind of want him to crash and burn a little bit without her? And I kind of want her to blossom and just continue to spread her awesomeness.

      Harvey, (and Oliver Queen) only seems to be able to tap into their deepest emotions under extreme emotional distress. Meaning if it isn't hurting them excruciatingly then they aren't going to allow themselves to feel it. Bless their messed up little hearts. So Harvey is definitely going to have to feel intense pain from Donna's loss in order to realize what she really does mean to him.

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    3. I really do think that this was the line in the sand for Donna, and I seriously admire her for that. She NEEDED this. And I do agree that I think she really wants to hear that Harvey has feelings for her. She doesn't need their entire relationship figured out because she's still trying to process what she wants, but that is what she DESERVES to hear.

      Mike and Rachel are totally gonna be used to be messengers and they're going to hate it so much. I cannot wait.

      I am really excited for Donna and Louis to work together more next season! Their dynamic is one of my favorites on this show and I do agree that it could be such an awesome opportunity for Louis to learn how to stick up for himself, but I also think it might be a good way for him to tone down? I just think of what Donna did for him in this episode -- she was the only one who was able to, without flipping out on him, get him to a calm, good place emotionally. Everyone else gets frustrated with Louis and either snaps back at him or leaves. Donna is the only one who won't let him talk down to her and will tell him exactly WHY he is feeling the way he is so he can be better. I love that about her so much -- her unwillingness to back down when other people are yelling at her.

      Hmmmm. I don't know if I can see Harvey spinning out of control. I think I can see him being isolated, though, from other people and closing himself off. I can definitely see him being more snippy with others, too and short-tempered. That's his default response to emotional issues, usually, haha.

      HARVEY SPECTER AND OLIVER QUEEN NEED TO GET THEIR COLLECTIVE CRAP TOGETHER ALREADY. Ugh, I love them both but they always have to learn things the hard way, don't they? That's why Felicity and Donna are for, thankfully. ;)

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  5. Oh, girl. I think I love you. Everything you wrote is 100% true.

    There's hope, the fun with Harvey and Donna just started!

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    1. Oh Anon, you are the actual sweetest. Thank you so much!

      And you're right -- now the REAL fun begins. ;)

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  6. Hello! I just started reading your review with last 2nd to last episode of Suits and I have to say that you have a wonderful way with words. You really delve deep into the characters psych and feelings. I wish Mr. Korsh would read your reviews! I'm still reeling from last night's finale and I have to confess I am a big Donna and Harvey fan. However, I am all for the angst that will be coming our way in season 5. Okay that's it for me and keep writing! Now I am going to go back and read all your reviews from previous episodes. Yes, I'm hooked!!

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    1. Anon: Thank you so much for your kind words and compliments! That is so flattering. I (along with all of the writers here, really) pride myself on discussing character and delving deep into themes. I love it a lot and I'm so glad you guys do too!

      I'm totally aboard the angst train (choo choo!) so long as it leads to character progression, which I feel like it has to. It's definitely going to be a really interesting season five and I can't wait. And thank you again so much for reading! :)

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  7. Hi, am a new fan to this blog! Really have enjoyed the in-depth analysis/review of the latest Suits episodes. Curious on your thoughts in regards to a few scenes from this episode:

    1) Office Confrontation: when Harvey asks Donna if she wants everything, what do you think Harvey meant by that question? Right before that, he already believes they do have everything and tells her so. Is it telling that his version of 'everything' is different for him vs. hers in that moment - and that he's the one to verbalize that?

    2) Eulogy Scene: as everyone is filing out of the room after Louis' speech, the camera pans to Harvey and he quickly glances at Donna again while also staying in the room a bit longer with a distant stare. What do you think are going on in his thoughts in that moment? Thought that second 'look' was glossed over too quickly by the cameras.

    3) End Scene: when Harvey stands up to try to convince Donna otherwise, he brings up the recent trial and how she needed to 'give it time' and 'can't just quit' - the way that Macht delivered those lines, I almost felt like Harvey was talking about himself - begging her to give him more time to process everything and not to give up on him - the lines felt like they had double meaning...

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    1. Hello there, lovely Anon! First of all, thank you so much for commenting and for the compliments. I'm so glad that you enjoyed the review. Let me see if I can discuss the scenes you mentioned:

      1) I think his version of everything differs because for him, he's content to have things the way they are -- to love her but not have to risk losing her by being in a romantic relationship. For Donna, that's not enough anymore. It's not enough for him to tell her those things and then not be able to elaborate on what they actually MEAN. So in Harvey's mind, he has everything already -- her friendship, her loyalty, the ability to flirt with her, the knowledge she will always be on his team, the drive to protect her, etc. -- but Donna doesn't. Donna gives and Harvey takes and there's no balance. She has sacrificed a lot for him but he's not willing to tell her how he feels. Hopefully that makes sense!

      2) Personally, I think Harvey was just being reminded of what occurred between them and what he said to her. I think he was thinking about how he was close to losing her and didn't want to ever again. And Donna? I think Donna was wondering whether he would ever tell her or show her how he truly felt or if they would spend the rest of their lives doing this dance around their feelings, only to end up like Louis -- wanting to express how he felt about Norma but only being able to do so too late.

      3) I think you're right, in a way. I can see that scene reading two ways: the first is that he wants him to be given more time to figure out how he feels. The second is that he wants Donna to take time and back away from this emotional precipice they're both on, citing that the reason that she is so concerned about how he feels about her is because of the recent trial. That if she gives it time, they can go back to how they were and it'll be okay. I think that's how I would probably interpret it because Harvey is very much concerned with resetting the status quo of their relationship at the episode's end and Donna is most definitely not okay with that anymore.

      Again: thank you for your comment and questions! :)

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    2. Oh! I totally agree on Anon’s analysis of Harvey’s words in the last scene... I don’t think he’s talking about Donna’s trial and quitting the job. He’s actually telling her not to give up on them!! That’s really beautiful... And on top of that, Gabriel Macht’s acting in those final moments really made me cry to.. Superb acting!

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    3. I think Harvey is definitely begging Donna not to leave him. And I think he's trying to come up with any way to convince her to stay. I think he's trying to convince them both that everything that got stirred up between them just needs some time to settle back to what it was before. Harvey has spent decades building up his walls, and even though they came down pretty far in ep 4x15, he started to reconstruct them almost the minute he left her apartment. And even there, he ran the second he realized they were falling. Harvey is not ready to come out from behind the safety of those walls. What he's really asking for in that scene, imo, is for Donna to accept the status quo, and just wait, with him, to see if he's ever ready to change.

      In Harvey's mind what they have is everything he needs. He knows that Donna puts him first in everything. She is there to help him process every aspect of his work and life. Yes, he gets jealous when she has another man in her life. But since she, with only one exception, doesn't date people at work, he can usually just stay oblivious to her outside relationships, because he's secure in the knowledge that they aren't a real threat to his status in her life. He's also free to have relationships with other women, and he knows Donna will still stay by him, and actually even try to help him build those relationships. Donna is always there to support him. Why on earth would Harvey want to change anything? Other than getting to sleep with her himself, and he just finds other women to satisfy that need, he gets every single benefit of being in a real relationship with Donna, but he doesn't have to risk his feelings. It's perfect for him. The one thing that he's not thinking about, is how it affects Donna. How Donna may not be satisfied with the half-hearted relationships that she is able to have because so much of herself is devoted to Harvey. And I think that it just became so clear to Donna, when her life was on the line, that she doesn't feel complete with what Harvey is offering anymore. She either wants it all with him, or it has to be nothing, so that she can find it all with someone else. And neither of those things was ever going to happen if she just kept things in the same place with Harvey. So she did the only thing she could do to start down a path to either really being with Harvey, or being free of him. She quit working for him.

      Now Harvey is going to have to decide if having Donna in his life is worth actually risking having a real relationship, or if he's willing to go on without her. And Donna gets to take the first step to letting go of Harvey Specter, and seeing if there is another life out there for her.

      Their relationship, up to this point, was pretty uneven. With Harvey risking the least, and getting the most reward. This resets things so that, if they do decide to try for a different relationship, things are more even. Donna Paulsen is a goddess. And if Harvey isn't willing to risk it all to be with her, then he doesn't deserve her.

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  8. Hi! First of all let me tell you all your reviews are amazing, i always read them
    Now I will write something a bit mean and I am doing it because I know you won't judge because I have commented on your posts before
    So here it is: I feel bad about it because he brought us such a good show on the air, but i am actually starting to develop some hatred for Aaron Korsh. He is honestly evil and obviously not a Darvey shipper and I fell like they won't be together for a while, if ever, because of him. He class the shots after all, he is the creator! He even said in a interview that Donna's ILY to Harvey during the finale was just a random line they decided to put in there to see how it sounds. Like WTF seriously?? How can you not know as a creator where your characters are headed. He's always something like "i dont know what harvey wants, i dont know what donna wants, i don't know where they are headed but h'es not confesing his love to her, they are platonic!" and after the way the actors act is so COMPLETELY different from what he says.

    I don't know why I have this anger towards the writers but maybe it's because i feel like this finale completely ruined all the character development we saw in Harvey in Intent.
    He brings his walls down and genuinely tells Donna how he feels about her just to go back to his old scared and selfish self. What is it gonna take for him to finally realize he can loose her any minute? Does she need to be in the hospital or something, her life in danger for him to finally acknowledge his true feelings for her (actually that would be pretty interesting to see if they did that, but seriously who am i kidding lol)

    I don't know I just feel like Korsh is so unsupportive of Harvey and Donna being a couple. If they don't try that in S5 I honestly think that they are dragging it wayyy to much and people will loose interest. Not pursing a romantic relationship with a happy ending between Harvey and Donna will bring the show to a whole new low because these two episodes were too much of a tease

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    1. Hi there, Anon! First off, thank you for reading these reviews and for being so diligent about reading them. It seriously means a lot to me!

      I totally understand your anger and frustration. Trust me when I say that you're not alone in feeling that way toward showrunners. I've found it's pretty common for the people who are closest to their show to be unable to actually SEE what is happening with their show (which is why I cited the example of Community and Dan Harmon and Andy Bobrow). I think that showrunners have to, at some point, acknowledge what is happening in their own show and take a step back. Begrudgingly, Dan Harmon finally admitted what we all had known for five years -- Jeff loved Annie. There will come a breaking point, in my mind, that Korsh and the writers will just be able to not ignore anymore. Furthermore, Gabriel Macht and Sarah Rafferty also know their character so intimately that I find it hard to believe Harvey and Donna would never grow. That's the beauty of really good actors: they take the source material and elevate it. Same with Joel McHale and Alison Brie in Community: the writers may not have INTENDED a scene to read romantically, but that's how Joel and Alison interpreted it as their characters; the same applies to the Harvey/Donna of it all, I think.

      So if I could offer any encouragement, it would be this: don't give up yet! I think Korsh won't be able to ignore their characterization and growth and development forever. He may not know where they are headed right now, but that doesn't mean he won't always.

      I don't think Harvey's development was ruined in "Not Just A Pretty Face." In fact, I think it was very much typical Harvey Specter: he opened himself up, got scared, and retreated. He didn't take the "I love you" back though. He was just scared to admit to himself and to Donna what it actually MEANT. And this time, Donna was the one calling the shots and Donna was the one pushing him away. And I don't know what it'll take for Harvey to realize that he can't just keep doing this to her, but I think her working for Louis and walking away from him is a pretty decent start.

      Cheer up, Anon! I have (blind, maybe stupid) faith that things will be okay. And if they're not... well, that's what complaining on the internet is for! ;)

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    2. Hi Jennifer, I must admit that its the first time I read a review from you, and I gotta say that I loved it.

      I must admit that I kinda agree with the anon that you answered to, I feel the same way. I didn´t watched the episode when was aired as a matter of fact I watched it few hours ago. I loved the last week´s episode so much but the interviews that got recently kinda ruined what I felt with that episode. And I was not in the mood to watch the last one.

      I think that my biggest problem is that I don´t trust Aaron and the writers, that whatever they decide to do with this couple, they will do it in a believable way and furthermore I have the feeling that they don´t know what to do with Darvey. Well I think that they do know that they don´t want them together now (and I don´t know if ever) and they will drag out this couple as much as possible but I think that that at the end of the day "damage" the characters and the show.

      About the finale, one thing I can´t help thinking and I would like to know your opinion, is that BOTH are responsible of their actual relationship. We all know about Donna´s rule, Donna has never been comfortable either crossing the line. When Scottie was in the picture, scottie asked her are you in love with harvey? and she was pissed and bothered by that question, Donna told Harvey (regarding him and Scottie) that she is “so sick of watching [you] fight like hell for everything that happens in here (the office) and nothing that happens in here (his heart),” and Harvey asked if it is about her, she said no. I don´t know, I think that both were/are uncertain and scared about what they want, so I don´t blame completely Harvey, it´s Donna´s fault too. So what happened that now Donna´s wants something different or is more open to it?

      That pity thing pisses me off a little bit, but again all that and Donna working with Louis is a way again to drag out the whole situation and I don´t think that nothing important will change in season 5.

      What will happen in season 5? I don´t think that much will change, I think that Harvey will have moments of anger, like ok you wanna leave me? I will find another secretary and another moments wishing that Donna would come back to him.

      Many fans are excited about Louis and Donna, I like them but not not a big fan, and I don´t want the writers to become Louis and Donna a Darvey 2, you know what I mean? I would like that dispite the friendship that Louis and Donna have, and the bond, I wish they showed to the audience that working together is not the same thing, that what Louis and Donna have you can´t not compare it to what Donna and Harvey had and have, you know what I mean?. I don´t doubt that Louis has a big heart deep down, but also can be an ass.....(sorry) and working with him it´s complicated. Louis will be very very happy to have Donna, it´s like he won that battle to Harvey and he will show it and sure we will have tense moments between Harvey and Louis.

      I am not sure if Donna will come back to work with Harvey,if that happens will be at the end of season 5 maybe, but I can´t help thinking that it would a repeated situation, I mean a similar situation when Donna was fired, I don´t know....

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    3. I’ve been thinking a lot about how the show may bring together Harvey and Donna (because we all know this WILL happen eventually, just don’t know when). And doing it just like Season 2 when he realized he couldn’t be him without her and how he fight for her (in a way, because it took him just 2 episodes), might be too much dejà vu. Also, if Donna now leaves Louis for Harvey, Louis will be so brokenhearted. It could remind me as the time (well, 2 episodes) when Mike became Louis’ associate and left him for working again for Harvey (anyone else remembers that “Team Litt” cake in the trash? So saaad).

      I think it’d be great if Louis was the one who brings them together this time. Louis will realize how amazing and one-of-a-kind is Harvey and Donna’s relationship, that he’ll be willing to give up Donna. Because he’ll realize these two belong together (professionally and/or romantically). There’s also the thing of him knowing about “the other time”...

      Anyhow it’d be exciting to watch this new dynamic, as it was in the first episodes of Season 4 with Mike working for Jonathan Sidwell.

      The writers have some challenging choices to make in season 5. Let’s see where it all leads to...

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    4. Hi everyone I am the anon who started this convo with that angry post lol.

      Here is the thing... Harvey and Donna always had this incredible bond and close relationship and they were each other's best friend and confident. The writers could have kept that while making them a couple and it would have easily turned into a relationship that everyone hope to have and envies you know? And they could have been an amazing couple and keep that dynamic. But no...they have ruined the dynamic by making Donna leave Harvey because she wants more and he is acting like a 4 year old! Way to ruin this amazing thing they had! It is not them being a couple that would ruin their dynamic (on the contrary I think it would make them stronger), it's the writers not knowing what to do with them, dragging this way to much by adding useless drama to their story! Gee just get them together, make them be this superpower couple and along with that bring some new kick ass legal cases that need solving!

      As for Anna's comment, I think it would be amazing to see Louis bring them together because Louis has always been a bit childish when it comes to situations of him vs. Harvey and for Louis to d that it would show a lot of maturity from him.

      Thank God for the actors on this show who i must say are amazing! Every time i read comments about what the writers think or interviews with Aaron Korsh i feel like giving up on this show! He is always so confusing, never clear about what he thinks, never gives straight up answers and contradicts what the viewers see in the scenes.
      But the acotrs, WOW they do such a good job! Where are their Emmy noms like honestly I don't get it!!!!!!
      Gabriel did such a fantastic job in the last two episodes, I mean that face when Donna walks away! And sarah she portrayed Donna's fear, confusing, hurt, anger so well. It's unfair towards them that their talent is not being recognized!

      I am a law student, i live in Canada and the show is filmed in Toronto so obviously I love it because it's so close to my heart. I came for the law but stayed for the relationships and the characters also. That being said, I hope the show does not follow into Korsh's vision because that is only gonna confuse the viewers. I guess we'll have to see in S5!

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    5. Anon: I really don't think that there was any way that Harvey and Donna were going to end up in a relationship as a natural progression. They've had 12 years to progress to there, and neither of them has made that move. I don't think either of them were really sure they wanted to make it. Now Donna is sure that at the very least she can't just spend her life as Harvey's secretary and life coach. She wants to at least try for a real relationship. But Harvey is completely comfortable with what they have. It's perfect for him. He gets all the benefits of a relationship, except sex which he just gets from other women, but he doesn't have to risk anything. The only way for Harvey to look at a real relationship with Donna is for him not to have the option of keeping what they already have. It had to be all or nothing. And Donna knew that. Harvey said it himself. In his mind what they already have is everything for him. Because he's calling all the shots. Donna needed to leave to place them on an even standing where she has as much control over them as he does. That's my take anyway. And why I'm not at all upset that Donna left Harvey to work for Louis. Staying meant nothing would ever change. Going gives them the chance for more.

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    6. I agree, I was not expecting them to get together right now! But i just feel like Donna leaving Harvey is so not Donna and Harvey, you know what I mean...like the special way they really have been for all this time. I feel like there could have been another way around that but anyways I hope something good comes out of it.

      What really bothers me is that most of the viewers see something completely different than what the writers intent to put in a scene. Like Donna saying ILY before leaving according to the way I saw it means "I love you Harvey, I am in love with you and I know you feel the same but you are scared. And you still expect me to stay around and make everything right for you while you give nothing back. I need to move on try to forget about my feelings for you because you obviously don't want to risk it, and that is why i am leaving, but I love you!" And i feel like Donna saying that was necessary but then the showrunner says it was randomly placed in there to see how it sounded and they don't know what it means! That is what dissapointnted me

      And also I guess because in my mind it would make more sense if Harvey were the one "chasing" after Donna because she was the one with the rule, she was the one who basically pushed him into scotty's arms, she is the one who broke her rule for British Harvey but not for him. And he was the oen always asking her questions like "is this about you? or do you want me and scotty to succeed?" so i feel like he was the one who wanted more but she would not give it to him. And now roles are randomly switched!
      But I hope this new twist will make Harvey realize what he has right in front of him

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    7. I guess I'm just looking at it that they had to break the special relationship that they currently have in order to have a MORE special relationship.

      As for comments from show runners, they are always shady. You're never going to get a showrunner to tell you that a couple is going to get together before they do. And you'll never get them to say that a couple is going to stay together once they get together. Their job is to keep the suspense of the plots going so that people need to tune in to see what happens. So sometimes you have to stop looking at what they're saying, and you have to just look at what's actually happening on the show.

      I think that both Harvey and Donna have long been aware of something more going on beneath the surface of their relationship. And there is definitely a reason that we never see Harvey so much as touch Donna. And the few times that Donna has touched Harvey? There has always been a reaction from him. I think that Donna backed off any kind of romance with Harvey, in part because of her rule, and also because she knew he wasn't ready and that it wouldn't have lasted between them. I think in the past couple of years, especially since Mike came and brought out another side to Harvey, there has been a change in Harvey that is more open to trying romance. But I think the idea of risking what he has with Donna on a romance, has been more risk than Harvey wanted to take. Having Donna with him in any capacity was better than losing her altogether. Now that option is no long available, so he has to decide if he's ready to really try. Season 5 is probably going to hurt. But it's going to be because they're finally taking steps and making the hard choices. Cross our fingers these two idiots figure it out.

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    8. Anon I agree with you. I feel exactly the same way.

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    9. I also think them doing this is silly, especially if they won't claim it. I mean, they're the ones who like to say that Harvey and Donna are super close as friends and partners, and it's true. I was always terrified of them taking the Donna and Harvey thing forward because I was terrified of them screwing up their amazing bond in favour of drama.

      Don't get me wrong, I'm a Darvey supporter 100%, but to me preserving their original unique bond is vital. Now, if the writers at least have a clear vision of where they're going with this and this is a bump in the road towards something, then fine. I'm horrified at the thought that they're just messing up the most constant and beautiful relationship in the show without a game plan.

      And I also hope there's no plan to try and trick us into thinking Louis and Donna could in any way replace Harvey and Donna. Their friendship is cool and all, but come on, the overwhelming bond between Harvey and Donna is superior by miles and utterly essential.

      So yeah, they need to get their acts together and claim this now. They're doing this, so they need to protect their characters. There's no takesies backsies with Harvey and Donna.

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    10. Well anon I am scared too, mainly because I don´t trust what they want to do, even I am not sure if they know what to do with them. This Donna Louis thing I would be utterly disappointed if they want them to be a Darvey 2, in terms of bond etc.. I really hope that somehow they will coma back to work together.

      I have been reading all the posts and opinions and they are amazing, everyday I come here to see if there is something new to read.

      I love Harvey and Donna and I would love love them to have everything, I mean working and intimate relationship, I am asking too much?? lol and as much as I have enjoyed that the last two episodes were focused on them, all that happened with the ILY and the interviews gave me a big reason to worry about the future. Its what you said Anon, What really bothers me too is that most of the viewers see something completely different than what the writers intent to put in a scene. So it´s like we can´t trust our perception anymore lol, that they are more interested in surprising people and not what makes sense, it´s like they can change whatever they want to in order to continue with the angst etc..

      I can understand that they are scared to put them together, scared to lose the angst,the will they or won´t they, but I think that it could work if the story is clever and good, they can use the flirty banter that we can see in the flashbacks episodes for example.

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    11. What really bothers me is that most of the viewers see something completely different than what the writers intent to put in a scene.

      This is, to be honest, one of the most difficult parts of watching a television show/couple faithfully and critically. As I noted in the article, the same thing happened with Jeff and Annie: these two weren't meant to be romantic interests -- the show had already set up an interest for Jeff -- but their chemistry and stories were just so compelling that people loved them together and the show loved them together, but it's always been too terrified to pull the trigger. And when it gets scared to pull the trigger, what it does (and what the writers and showrunners do) is undercut the significance of their interactions by saying that Jeff feels "creeped out" by the age difference or that Annie has a "school girl crush."

      That diminishes the couple and it also diminishes the actors who (as you might tell from like, two GIFs if you don't watch the show) really don't feel that way about their characters and don't play them that way at all. Unfortunately, only time and a good hard look at the show from an objective perspective will help showrunners and writers see what the audience does. And that takes humility on the part of someone who created a show. I hope Korsh is able to take a step back from his work long enough to re-watch the scenes and understand HOW Macht and Rafferty are playing their characters and what that portrayal conveys in terms of Harvey/Donna.

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    12. I agree. Writers need to calm down about what they originally intended. These shows aren't like a novel or a film that can be shuffled and changed to fit the original view ... they're completely different because they change all the time, plus they're dependent on the actors and what works on screen. A show is an organic entity, and shows that do well adapt with this and accept it - no, they embrace it.

      As an example, in Friends, Monica and Chandler were never supposed to be a couple. Then when they hooked up, it was supposed to be a funny storyline for a couple of episodes. But then the writers realised how unbelievably well they worked together and how great the chemistry was between Matthew Perry and Courtney Cox, and they changed direction completely, and it worked.

      Now this is happening with Suits ... Harvey and Donna were never meant to be romantic interests with each other, and that's fine. But it worked out differently on screen ... they have this chemistry that pretty much billows out no matter what direction the writers intended a scene to go in. It grew into something, whether they like it or not, and they need to understand that.

      In Donna's own words, "You can't go back." And they can't with these two. In my mind, at least, the moment they couldn't go back from was Louis demanding if she loved Harvey during that mock trial, and she couldn't answer. Before that, they could play their games, but with that scene, it was over. It grew into something, and with such an intense chemistry-filled relationship, there IS no going back and the writers have to accept that already.

      And most importantly, they need to embrace it so that they can sit down and properly think about what to do with these characters in this light. Otherwise they're just going to mess it up.

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    13. YESSS thank you!!! And Monica and Chandler ( in this case Darvey ) became a much stronger and better couple than Rachel and Ross ( or Rachel and Mike), who were frankly starting to be annoying in Friends, if you know what I mean.

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  9. Hey Jen,

    Ive never been through your Suits reviews before so this is a first & I loved it (Too bad I took the plunge with the finale huh)

    SO Jessica Pearson: Ive always loved Jessica Pearson. She’s one of the most powerful characters on this show but she’s never been the hero of this story. Ive always loved Jessica for her flaws and layers and her (supposed) invincibility. She’s the QUEEN OF CONTROL isn’t she? And to see that shatter all around her was beautiful.. Even in her time of absolute despair, the emotions were understated but that’s Jessica Pearson in all her glory.. She was devastated but she wasn’t broken. I don’t think anybody can truly break Jessica. There were regrets for sure abt her lack of honestly with Jeff but she got into this relationship with him being her logical & rational self and completely in control and not sure if you’ll agree with me here Jen but I think that a huge part of the devastation we saw had more to do with Jessica hating the lack of control in her life, realizing that she couldn’t control the way she felt or the situation with Jeff and less about having lost Jeff, the love of her life.

    Oh and tht moment with Harvey was hardcore, fantastic & wonderful all rolled into one. For Jessica to admit that she’s not in the right state of mind to offer him advice was brilliant. Ive seen Jessica play the sounding board, Ive seen her backstab Harvey, Ive also seen her categorically tell Harvey she wont help him coz she doesn’t want to/doesn’t agree with him, but to see her face her agony headlong and admit to not being able to do something coz she CAN’T do it was Jessica Pearson at her most unguarded and even though they didn’t delve into this, Im almost certain that, that was probably the 1st time Harvey saw her like this too.

    Mike/Rachel
    Ill straight up say this: Im not a big Rachel fan. She has her moments (I love her scenes with Donna the most btw) but she’s not one of my favourites. I also don’t feel much for the Rachel-Mike romance.. the only times Ive felt connected to tht relationship had everything to do with Mike, his despair and his emotions and almost nothing to do directly with Rachel. Their work relationship has always been more abt Rachel helping Mike & while they’ve had small victories, Ive never seen them as a formidable team even on the work front. Their relationship has been tumultuous and while they’ve been finding their way, they’ve never reached ‘epic romance’ level for me.

    On a side note: Ive always found it amazing how 2 people who are together romantically (Mike & Rachel) have never been the love story of the show for me & 2 people who have very strong feelings for each other but haven’t crossed that territory yet (Harvey & Donna) have been my Suits OTP right from Season 1 when you could see the damn chemistry but didn’t really know what to do with it.

    Coming back to Mike & Rachel though, since Ive never felt strongly enough for the relationship to buy into that proposal, my heart did not melt and become a puddle of mush at the end of that wedding proposal scene. It was touching, it was earnest & there was whole lot of authenticity from Mike coz of everything they had been through this season and how they overcame that BUT its left me wondering whats next for them. Is the next season going to be about ‘Bridezilla Rachel’? Or are we going to see yet another Logan-like hiccup both of which wouldn’t make for great story telling honestly. Or are they just going to get their ’happily ever after’ (WHAT? Already? No!) (Im a horrible person :P)
    I’m not waiting with bated breath honestly about their next storyline unless Aaron Korsch actually says “Screw you guys! We’re unpredictable & YOU KNOW NOTHING”

    TBC

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    1. HELLO MY DEAR! First off, thank you for reading the review and taking the time to comment! Sorry I'm just getting around to replying now (being away from a computer for a few days was hard, haha):

      Jessica - She was devastated but she wasn’t broken. An absolutely beautiful way to put it! I love Jessica Pearson. Sometimes she rubs me the wrong way because in her quest to be in control, she's often calloused. But I love that this arc allowed us to explore how deeply Jessica cares about people and how deep her emotions run. She's really quite an amazing and complex character. I'm so glad that in spite of everything, this show allows her to explore her emotions. I'm not sure if the grief over the relationship had to do with losing control. I think it was more like... dealing with the emotional repercussions of decisions for the first time, right? Like, this was the first time she's really had to deal with a fallout from something SHE caused in a relationship and not something that was done TO her, if that makes sense? I think guilt played a huge role in it too over her not telling him sooner.

      Mike/Rachel - Rachel annoys me most of the time, honestly. I think she and Louis balance each other out really nicely and some scenes with Donna are stellar, but for the most part, I just... find her grating. And I've never been a fan of the pairing really, but the proposal was sweet. But you're right in that Mike/Rachel hasn't really ever been the major "love story" of this show. In fact, I would venture to presume more people are fans of Harvey/Donna at this point than hardcore Mike/Rachel fans.

      I DO have to wonder what exactly is next for Mike and Rachel and questioned that during the airing. Where does their story go from here? Do we really believe Suits is capable of writing a series about them being married? Is it terrible that I'm already wondering what will inevitably cause them to call off their engagement?

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    2. Oh, I'm betting it'll be one or both of two things:

      1) Rachel was caught up in the moment when she said yes to the proposal, but she's going to take a step back and remember that Mike is a fraud and this will "cast a shadow over the rest of their lives together". Remember the dream she had when she fainted at Columbia? Where she tells Mike she can't marry him because he'll always be a fraud? Yea. We're gonna see that come into play FOR SURE.

      2) Robert Zane finds out and forbids Rachel to go through with it, and Rachel will definitely hesitate at first. Because her dad's approval means a lot to her. And Mike will be pissed that she's not immediately defending him.

      I think it'll be both, honestly.

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    3. Oh, AND/OR Robert Zane will hold this over Mike's head. Rachel says he never does anything without getting something in return...

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  10. Louis/Donna
    Louis & Donna have been my 2nd favourite BrOTP of all time (after Harvey-Mike of course). I love their scenes together & I agree 100% with everything you’ve mentioned. Also I think Ive seen Louis at his vulnerable best in his scenes with Donna (not just in the finale but in the series). His need for approval, his need for a friend, his need for a sounding board who understands – Donna is all of that to him. And their grief-ridden scenes in this episode were spectacular!

    But most importantly while Louis & Donna share a special bond (they’re kindred spirits of sorts aren’t they), I sometimes wonder whether Louis feels so strongly abt Donna also because she is his connect to Harvey. It’s been no secret that Louis & Harvey are frenemies but the friendship far outweighs the enemity for Louis (if he had a say about it) and Donna gives him that window into Harvey’s world and what kind of friendship he actually wants with Harvey. Also Harvey understands Louis better now because of Donna and Louis appreciates that the most about Donna.

    Also Norma! Gosh Is it possible to feel so bad about the death of a person we never ever saw on screen? Coz I felt terrible for Louis abt Norma! RIP Norma.

    TBC

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    1. LOUIS AND DONNA FOREVER. I think they'll need each other this year like they haven't before. And I kind of hope that Donna gets sent back to Harvey because of Louis's own doing. I just can't stand seeing ANOTHER person leave Louis and I feel like that would be especially heartbreaking. I think it needs to be Louis realizing how much Harvey needs Donna and how much she needs him in order for this to be a really good story for his character.

      They really do share such a great bond and have fantastic comedic chemistry together, seriously. I think that this could be really good for their relationship and growth as characters.

      I AM SO SAD ABOUT NORMA YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW.

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  11. Hi Jen!

    Great review! So good to read it.
    Thanks for noting that parallelism of both Donna and Harvey’s “ILV and walk-away” in the last two episodes. I didn’t realize!

    I’d like to note another parallelism between this season finale and last season. If in this one, Donna tells Harvey she’s leaving him, last season was Mike telling Harvey to let him go. And also, Donna and Mike weren’t leaving for good: Mike left the firm but still engaged to Harvey being his lawyer, and Donna will still be working at PSL but for Louis. So Harvey will have to deal with Donna’s loss just like he did for Mike. I’m really curious on how the show is going to develop this new situation between them. I think Donna’s loss is way more important for Harvey thank Mike so IMO the reaction will be different, more emotional (as much as it’d be difficult for Harvey o deal with these emotions).

    And speaking of more parallelisms: in the finale both Mike and Harvey told “their women” :P how amazing they are, and using almost the same sentence:
    -Mike to Rachel when proposing: “You’re the most amazing woman I’ve ever met”
    -Harvey to Donna in the last scene: “You’re one of the most amazing woman I’ve ever met” (which BTW I tought it was reaaaally sweet! It’s something all Suitors think so it was great to hear it from Harvey.)

    Last parallelism: when Harvey and Marcus spoke on the phone it reminded me of Mike and Trevor...
    M: What’s up dickhead?
    H: How are you asshole?

    Am I crazy? I feel like I have this whole Suits encyclopedia in my head and keeps poping up!! JAJAJAJA :D

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    1. Hi there Anna! Thank you so much for your comment on this review. :D

      How amazing they are, and using almost the same sentence:
      -Mike to Rachel when proposing: “You’re the most amazing woman I’ve ever met”
      -Harvey to Donna in the last scene: “You’re one of the most amazing woman I’ve ever met”


      I totally didn't even catch that but THANK YOU for noticing! That's so astute of you. And I agree: I can't wait to see what this does for Harvey and Donna as characters.

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  12. Harvey/Mike
    I have a small side note on Harvey/Mike. When the ep started out and I saw the Harvey-Marcus-Forstman connection, I was certain that things went really bad for Marcus. I think they’ve mentioned his gambling issues before (nt sure though)and my understanding was that his relationship with Marcus may be estranged coz things went horribly wrong? In fact I was so sure that we were finally seeing what that terrible something tht happened to Marcus coz of Charles Forstman’s money was (aside from him using Harvey as a tip and getting Marcus involved in the dirty deal). Ive always attributed Harvey’s love for Mike to an underlying sentiment that’s more than just “Oh he’s super smart & deserves better than what was handed to him by life and im going to give him that opportunity to make something of himself”. They didn’t share similar backgrounds, similar motivations or similar life lenses. Infact the only thing they have in common is their drive to achieve, their ability to think out of the box and most importantly WIN. In fact they’re so different from each other in every other way, that that’s what make them such a great team (you know..the ying to the yang, the bonnie to the clyde (eeesh) etc). But over the past 4 seasons, I realized that that deeper, underlying sentiment was the need to protect Mike, to always save Mike. So when I started this ep and saw things start to unravel, I was certain that saving Mike for Harvey may have been Harvey’s attempt at saving the younger brother he couldn’t save before. So to see, at the end of the ep, that Marcus is a-ok and has a thriving business and a (loving) family made zero sense to me. IN fact that plot was just abt Harvey havin had a minor bad experience with Forstman which only led to him nt taking up his job offer & not prosecuting him & him drawing that parallel of Forstman hurting Woodhall through someone close (like he did to Harvey). Is it weird that I was terribly disappointed that the plot didn’t serve more purpose?

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    1. I agree with you. The Fortsman plot didn't make any sense for me... I'm still trying to understand why Harvey accepted to work for him just to give lend some money to his brother. He needed $150,000 so if Harvey's salary is $50,000 a year, I don't get why a bank won't give Harvey a loan. If you need a reasonable amount of money, why don't ask for a loan like everyone of us would do...??

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    2. But over the past 4 seasons, I realized that that deeper, underlying sentiment was the need to protect Mike, to always save Mike. So when I started this ep and saw things start to unravel, I was certain that saving Mike for Harvey may have been Harvey’s attempt at saving the younger brother he couldn’t save before. So to see, at the end of the ep, that Marcus is a-ok and has a thriving business and a (loving) family made zero sense to me. IN fact that plot was just abt Harvey havin had a minor bad experience with Forstman which only led to him nt taking up his job offer & not prosecuting him & him drawing that parallel of Forstman hurting Woodhall through someone close (like he did to Harvey). Is it weird that I was terribly disappointed that the plot didn’t serve more purpose?

      I was totally surprised that Marcus ended up being like... a really good guy. But I think the point of that plot (and it wasn't clearly expressed but more implied) was that innocent people -- even if they're not totally 100% innocent -- are the ones that are leveraged whenever you make a deal with Forstman, I think that was what the point was and if you notice, just the episode before, DONNA was being leveraged. And just like Marcus was the person he cared most for and would do anything to protect back then, so Donna is now. I think that the whole episode was about how Harvey doesn't like to show weakness and the reason he is the way he is now has to do with that -- caring about another person is weakness (to slightly paraphrase The 100) and Harvey had to learn that when he cared about someone. It makes sense that he feels weak when he admits to caring about Donna then, and is scared: in his mind, there's a lot that's happening and all he wants to do is protect the people he loves from being hurt or disappointed. It cost him a part of his soul when he made that deal with Forstman for Marcus; it cost him Donna when he was unwilling to admit why he said what he said and what it meant.

      That may be a bit convoluted (IT'S EARLY AND I HAVEN'T HAD MY BOATLOAD OF COFFEE YET) but I think the point of the parallelism was less about Marcus being a success and more about people unwillingly (and unknowingly) getting caught in the crossfires of something because of what Harvey did or did not do.

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  13. Continued (and im sorry this is getting really long)

    Now on to my favourite part: Harvey & Donna
    I havent followed Community over the years (Ive watched a few episodes & I know about Jeff & Annie but that’s it). But I did DID NOT know about Aaron Korsh insisting that Harvey-Donna scenes are platonic at best. WHAT THE HELL!! I wish I had an emoji here to convey the incredulity of that.. Anybody with half an eye can see the goddamn chemistry all the way from the moon! I refuse to believe that showrunners cant see what we’re seeing. I mean I agree that maybe in the beginning they visualised it to be platonic but to write it like that and then see it acted out by Gabriel & Sarah like THAT, how can anybody continue to say platonic and Harvey & Donna in the same sentence. And Im not just talking abt the finale, Im talkin abt the whole damn series. Ive always thought Harvey & Donna shared so much epic chemistry even before anything unplatonic was conveyed, even through Zoe & Scottie, Donna was always up there for Harvey and while the previous seasons showed trust & loyalty as the basis of their relationship, we’ve always assumed that all of that must be stemming from love right? And then this season OMG Harvey Specter wears his damn heart on his sleeve and says it out loud to Donna & all of us just died and went to Darvey heaven didn’t we.

    Like how Jessica Pearson is the Queen of Invincibility, Donna Paulsen for me is nothing short of an Amazonian war princess with the sass of course so to see her scared, lost and broken in the previous episode was beautiful but most importantly I love how Harvey’s emotions all just came tumbling to the forefront at the 1st sign of seriously losing Donna. We’ve seen Donna losing her job and being terribly hurt over that and Harvey was broken coz of that too but what we saw this time had a finality to the predicament that Donna was in. Jail time! Losing her forever. And that’s all it took for Harvey Specter to say those 3 magic words.

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    1. Like how Jessica Pearson is the Queen of Invincibility, Donna Paulsen for me is nothing short of an Amazonian war princess with the sass of course so to see her scared, lost and broken in the previous episode was beautiful but most importantly I love how Harvey’s emotions all just came tumbling to the forefront at the 1st sign of seriously losing Donna.

      A MILLION TIMES THIS. Jeff and Annie have given me so much trouble over the years not because of them, but because of how poorly they were treated by the writers (and not just as a pairing but as individual characters). I just don't understand how we're supposed to read what Korsh is saying about how Harvey was saying what he did out of pity or sympathy and Donna's "I love you" being basically a "screw you."

      Sometimes I just don't get showrunners and writers.

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  14. (Continued this is the last part I swear)

    I LOVE your Darvey/Olicity parallelism and I agree with every word written (That was awesome btw Jen. Kudos) Oliver & Harvey expected the 2 people in their ‘List of Always’ to always be there for them. Can I say something here though? Donna & Felicity with their selflessness & unquestioning loyalty in the past paved the way for these 2 men to feel like that. They’ve been their constants in friendship and the men didn’t think things would be any different with ILY thrown into the mix but that’s where these women surprised them. Donna & Felicity both believe LOVE to be the game changer. They don’t believe in compromises when it comes to love. For them, they’re all in when love comes into the equation. These women don’t do things in halves and they expect the same from their men and they deserve to be loved like that. Nothing less will do. Which brings me to my favourite line of this episode:

    "Because we have everything." "No, YOU have everything."
    Wow Donna conveys so much about the Darvey/Olicity relationship with that 1 line. That’s just it isn’t it?

    The fact that Donna with her unbreakable, warrior princess vibe & Felicity with her passion & strength & unbridled optimism both felt a loss of control when it came to the 2 men in their lives. What I love about both of them is that they didn’t stand down & take it. Both of them took charge the minute those half ILYs were said & laid things out. Some hot truth tea was spilled and Harvey & Oliver got burnt.

    Coming back to Suits, when I saw tht ILY last episode, I wasn’t sure whether that was meant to be platonic because it sure as hell felt real, his face said it all but the showrunners have never ever committed to Harvey & Donna as a couple in the past and they’ve had some emotional, intense moments throughout the series, so for me to suddenly assume that this is the ILY that changed it all and then in the finale I saw Harvey’s heartbroken, kicked puppy face and my heart broke just the way it always breaks for a certain infuriating Oliver Queen. That’s when I knew things were abt to get real.
    Donna telling Harvey that she loved him at the very end was a line that conveyed so much – it was an answer to Harvey’s ILY of course BUT it was also despair, hope, instigation, compulsion, permanence all rolled into one and Sarah Rafferty nailed that one.

    Donna leaving Harvey to work for Louis, I think might be the 1st step in their relationship (since she’s always maintained that she cant have a relationship with Harvey while working with him). Plus I think Season 5 Harvey is going to be Season 3 Oliver – practising inhuman celibacy :P No other love interests, & no meaningless relationships. Or Aaron Korsh might just say “you guys hallucinated everything, there is no love there so we’re just going to brush this under the carpet for now”. As you can see I have very little faith in showrunners when it comes to Harvey & Donna

    But what a beautiful way to drop the curtains on this season. Enjoyed every moment of it & I absolutely cannot wait for summer & Season 5. And Im going to make sure I catch up on every Suits review of yours till then coz they're glorious like everything else you write :)

    Thanks again, Shweta xoxo

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    1. I hope the show runners don't just forget about it because that would be such a bad move in my opinion! viewers will be so turned off by that! And another example to show how the show runners make no sense : That scene where Donna says ILY to Harvey before walking away...According to Aaron Korsh he put that line in there just like that, to see how it sounded and that if they would not like it they would simply just cut it off an take it out. He said that in an interview! WHAT?? seriously they just throw ILYs all over the place in this show without them meaning anything? Those words should never be spoken lightly to someone. I can't believe he would say that about Donna responding to Harvey's ILY! I have no faith is the writers anymore. But you are right, Sarah Rafferty nailed it, too bad it was discredited by Korsh's comments in later interviews I guess

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    2. Hey Anon, Yup im with you 100% i hope they dont forget (They wont :)).
      Regarding lack of faith..past data tells me tht Darvey isnt top of mind fr writers so i've never had very high expectations, I just live happily on the Darvey scraps they throw at me and Im more than content & then when im least expecting it, they give us those beautiful ILYs and Im yelling at my screen and life is rainbows, puppies & unicorns and then the showrunner decides to do an interview & while I havent read the interview, IM aware that it created waves.. Here's what i think.. I think Aaron Korsh is an evil mastermind/genius who's playing us big time (or he's being a troll like Marc Guggenheim if you follow Arrow :P).. Aaron knows exactly what he's doing to us.. and I think thts the beauty of it.. He made a statement abt tht scene and Harvey & Donna's ILY. We saw the exact same scene and thought it was an epic romance moment.. the fact that its open to interpretation is what makes that scene so damn beautiful.. I look at it as a cliff hangar of sorts.. cz it opens up a world of opportunities for S5. Sure Im all for romance but this is going to go beyond that.. Opportunities for Harvey cz I love how that last scene showed me Harvey in a different light.. I always knew hw strongly he felt abt Donna but to see him so vulnerable and open and broken told me so much more abt Harvey than Ive seen in the last 4 seasons. Cz Donna has been the very foundation of all things Harvey Specter and to have tht taken away is like asking a man to stand upright without a backbone. Opportunities for Donna cz while Donna is a spectacular woman in her own right, she's Harvey's Donna and everybody in Pearson Specter Litt & the world and the Intergallactic universe knws that cz Donna can be faulted for many things but never for her loyalty towards Harvey. And now since there's no Harvey in her work life, will she show the same level of loyalty to Louis? Will she further grow as a person with support frm her kindred spirit aka Louis Litt? World of possibilities and S5 cant come soon enough right?
      Dont worry Anon, our shipper hearts are gonna continue to soar, cz we saw what we saw, we felt what Harvey & Donna felt, that scene gave us the opportunity to visualize a million future possibilities and THAT Is a goddamn WIN in my book and nobody can change that powerful Darvey moment for us not even Aaron Korsh! :)

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    3. TV Love, This post is EPIC! And pretty much sums up what I feel too. Korsh can give as many interviews as he wants, but it doesn't change what I see on my TV.

      This line is especially great " Cz Donna has been the very foundation of all things Harvey Specter." YES! This exactly. Harvey really doesn't know his own world without Donna. And honestly, she doesn't know hers without him. Watching them both try to navigate this change, and what it all really means, is what I'm totally looking forward to in Season 5.

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  15. In the finale, Darvey shippers (like me) have been so focused analyzing Harvey and Donna…but I think we also should give attention to other characters like Jessica or Louis.

    Jen, I can’t be more agree with you. Jessica merely appeared in 3 scenes but she didn’t need more. I like what you said about her choosing to feel the pain, instead of trying to conceal it with drinks. I didn’t think of that!

    I found the scene in the office with Harvey heartbreaking. Her walls are totally down but not only with Jeff. Admitting to Harvey that she’s not right is something we didn’t see before. She’s always been this aggressive and confident woman with him. So, really admitting that is such a big step.

    I really like Jessica and Harvey’s relationship, just from the first episode. I’m happy when they’re in good terms and help one another to win cases. That’s why Harvey’s move in season 3 broke my heart. But since then, and since Harvey becoming name partner, their relationship has become much more sincere and open. They really trust each other and ask the other for advice, and not only in business matters.

    I think they can relate in a sense, and that’s because both have develop emotionally in the last 4 years, letting people in… Unfortunately, it didn’t work out (Jeff/Jessica, Harvey/Scottie). But I’m positive there’s hope for both! :)

    About Louis…the funeral scene was heartbreaking. When he tells Donna: “I couldn’t see how I felt without you showing me and the truth is you know me better than I know myself”. Don’t you think is just what she would wanna hear come out from Harvey’s mouth?? I believe it’s this moment when she decides to leave Harvey. She realizes Louis is giving her what she wants: being honest about his feelings.

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    1. Anna! Hello again. :)

      Yes, so much time was devoted to the Harvey/Donna of it all but that stuff with Jessica and Louis was so insanely powerful because of how nuanced and understated it was. I loved that they were both grieving the loss of relationships and for very similar reasons: they both didn't say what they should have said before it was too late.

      I really love how back on track we are with Harvey and Jessica. When they were fighting, it was like your mom and dad fighting. I love that they don't always agree with what the other does but that they try to understand. And Harvey's little moment with Jessica where she admitted she wasn't thinking clearly is probably one of the most unguarded moments we have ever seen from her. I loved it.

      MAN, Rick Hoffman is SO good. That scene where he blows up at Donna, thinking she's Norma was so fantastic. And so underappreciated. Louis, you're exactly right, is the person telling her how much he needs her. It's a great parallel with the flashbacks because Donna believed Harvey used to need her and want her, but she's come to realize (I think) that being wanted can only go so far -- being honest is what she really wants (again, thinking back to the flashbacks and how much Harvey confided in Donna and came to her for advice, even when he wouldn't take it).

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  16. Don’t you think the finale’s title should’ve been “Love is in the air” ;) There were SO MANY “I love you” in this episode that I had to make a list:

    1. Harvey to Donna (AGAIN!!! He didn’t say it in 12 years, and now he tells Donna 2 days in a row)
    2. Harvey to Marcus: on the phone in last scene. It was beautiful to see how Harvey cares for his brother. He even tells him that he misses him. SO sweet I almost died...
    3. Louis to Norma: at the funeral
    4. Mike to Rachel: during the proposal
    5. Donna to Harvey: and making it the last words of Season 4. WOW! What a statement for next season, don’t you think? Jen, I liked your analysis of this last ILY. For me it’s like she's saying: “I’m leaving you BUT I’m not doing it to you hurt you. Don't take it the wrong way. I care about you”.

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  17. I watched again and again THE SCENE where Harvey and Donna argue and I can’t believe they talked about their relationship stating some things that the both knew but never talked before, and now they’re out there in the open!

    I thought that was such a major step in their relationship! No matter how it turns out to be, romantic or not...

    H: We have everything
    D: YOU have everything
    H: Do you want everything?

    Here, everything means everything! You know what I mean? ;)

    H: …‘cause nothing happened last night
    D: Why? And don’t tell me I know why
    H: ‘cause it would have been a mistake and you know it

    They’re actually talking about kissing or sleeping together! So they both confirm that last night there was SOMETHING in the air and that they both felt it...

    And “the cherry on top” moment:
    D: Love me how? You either can’t answer or you won’t, which is bullshit because obviously you don’t just look at me this way. You’re capable of looking at me THAT way but you don’t wanna let those worlds collide because you’re afraid to risk anything.

    Extra kudos for Donna for saying everything out loud!! I would suggest Aaron Korsch to really read again those lines and if after that he still sees this relationship as platonic, then I really think I’m crazy.

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  18. I think nobody commented on the decision of making this finale a flashback episode. I think it was a smart move. This kind of episode have worked well in the past so why don’t use in such a big episode as this?

    Harvey and Donna’s scenes were amazing and it was great to know how these two met.

    Some lines that cracked me up:
    -Donna telling Harvey she didn’t want sex, just being his secretary
    -“You don’t know how Donna I am”
    -“We also do some actual secretary work?”

    I loooove Flashback Harvey (he sure smiles more than Present Harvey!). I really liked to know more about Harvey’s family, and get to know Marcus. So, please keep flashback episodes coming!! We still have many things to know about his past... Will we ever get to know his mother? And what exactly did she do to their father with that other man they talked about? Why Harvey feels responsible for Marcus’ gambling problem? What did exactly happen?

    It was beautiful to know that Marcus was doing well with wife and kids... Any chance we get to meet them in the future? Pleeease!!! I want to see Aunt Harvey!! How cool would that be? ;)

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  19. Hi! My name is Maya....what an amazing review and not just this one but the one from last week too. You are really good at writing, you should be a movie critic or something, if you are not already haha.

    Anyways, I have mixed feeling about the finale so I guess we will see what happens in Season 5 but there is one thing I wanted to ask since you seem to know Suits so well.

    I read this interview with their show runner and he said that during Intent, after Harvey tells Donna she is different and says "I should go", Donna's "why?" right after that means that "Why don’t you sleep over? I want to sleep with you. I want to be in a relationship with you.” And he said, “No.” She said, “Why?” And he says, “You know why. I don’t want to be in a relationship with you right now.” Here's the link
    http://tvline.com/2015/03/04/suits-finale-donna-quits-harveys-secretary-season-5-spoilers/

    So basically, according to Korsh she said "Why" as in "why do you have to go? lets sleep together!" and Harvey said "you know why i have to go", kinda of like it would be a mistake...and to make her feel better for going away he said "I love you".

    Is this what the showrunner is trying to say or am I misunderstanding him because that is so not what i got from that scene.
    I understood that she asked "why?" to the fact that he told her she was different and not to the "I should go". As in "why am I the only one that matters if i loose faith in you?" and then he said "you know why, because i love you"

    Am I making sense, I am so confused right now lol. Help!!! haha thanks

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  20. Maya: I'm totally not Jenn, but I just wanted to say that your take on that scene is exactly the same as mine. I didn't think she was asking him why he was leaving. I felt like she was asking him why it was different with her. And I felt like that was why his answer was you know I love you. I'm not sure what Korsh intended. Maybe it is what he said in that interview. But that isn't the way Sarah and Gabriel acted it. And I trust their interpretation of their characters more than what the showrunner says.

    For example Korsh said in an interview that he wasn't sure why he wrote the ILY from Donna at the end of ep 16. And that he suggested she say in a way that was like an FU to Harvey. And Gabriel immediately spoke up and said, no. That it would make Donna look weak, and that Donna would never do that. So they acted it as Donna saying it in more of a genuine way. And that made it perfect. You could see how much it was hurting her to hurt him. And she just wanted him to know that, even though she was leaving, she really loves him. Korsh may be clueless, although I think he knows way more than he pretends to, but these actors are not. Take your cues from them, and try to ignore the troll.

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    1. Maya here: I swear to God when I read that interview I was like WHAT THE HELL REALLY?? I think the actors should take over the whole creative process of the show lol. Maybe they should change show runner or something :P and to have made Donna ILY as a FU would have been a terrible mistake in my opinion. And how can you not be sure why you write something, and something so powerful as an ILY? I call bs on that. Maybe Aaron Korsh is just trying to troll the fans and keep the suspense going and keep them coming back but I think his strategy and plan are backfiring because it's not working, it's only confusing people :/

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    2. MAYA! First of all, hello there and welcome! And thank you for taking the time to comment and to be so kind about the review. I wish I got paid to do this full-time. Maybe someday I will. ;)

      First off, I'll just address you and Rashell and say that I absolutely agree with Rashell's interpretation of the scene: the last thing we hear him say before he leaves is: "I should go." BUUUUUUUUT I honestly don't think that's what the "why" was in reference to. The "why," I think, was in reference to the really gushingly stupidly romantic statement he made about how with her, it's different. Because the line Harvey delivers really doesn't make sense in the context of the conversation of why he's leaving, you know? It would be like this:

      Harvey: I should go.
      Donna: Why should you go?
      Harvey: You know why. You know I love you, Donna.

      Okay, sure, it doesn't look INSANELY out of place. But it still doesn't really provide an explanation. Not like this:

      Harvey: With you, it's different. ... I should go.
      Donna: Why?
      Harvey: You know why. You know I love you, Donna.

      THAT makes the most sense to me: it's her questioning not why he's leaving but why he keeps telling her these things and protecting her and fighting so hard for her and why, with her, it's something different. And his explanation of: "I love you" fits better with that than with an explanation for him leaving, right? It makes sense: an "I love you" is a perfect answer as to why she's different from anyone else in his mind (and it also parallels how earlier in the episode, Mike asked why Harvey never went crazy overboard trying to save HIM and then Harvey snapped: "Because she's different." That had nothing to do with Harvey leaving and everything to do with Harvey LOVING. BAM. #micdrop)

      KORSH, WATCH YOUR ACTORS. LEARN FROM DAN HARMON'S MISTAKES, PLEASE. *sighs* (Also thank you both for your thoughts and comments!)

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    3. Maya here: Thanks for you answer Jen! And yes I agree...if it was meant to sound as Korsh said it, and Donna asking "why?" in response to the "i should go" then I am sorry but in my opinion it's just an example of bad writing! Because it makes no sense if you look and the way the scene was set up (romantic, Harvey telling her she is different, the song etc)...even saying that he said the ILY and meant it in a brotherly way would make more sense than what Korsh is saying ( even though I don't think he meant it in a non romantic way at all )

      I always wondered if Darvey would have happened by now if different actors were playing them. I mean don't get me wrong, Gabriel and Sarah are FANTASTIC actors and they have insane chemistry and i love them both, but they are friends in real life. I dunno maybe they feel awkward kissing or filming love scenes and all...but they are actors, it's their job and they should get over it if it is like that no? guess what is where we would get to see just how good the are at their job haha, i don't know if this has anything to do with it, just an idea

      Also, Korsh said in another interview that Harvey didn't want to answer her " love me how?" question because he didn't want to hurt her feelings and reject her again, not because he is in love with her and is scared to admit it. HUH? okay i guess we could say that but what bother me is that Korsh is always like..."well people see it in different way, we could argue both way but in my opinion bla bla bla" HE IS THE SHOWRUNNER, i guess his opinion would be the only one that matter because he calls the shots no, its his show? He never takes responsibility for what he writes and what is portrayed, he always blames everything on the viewers and how a scene has different interpretations. I don't find that very professional, I don't know just my opinion, I'm not a TV critic or anything like that.

      Hopefully they figure it all out in S5 cuz now it's a hot and confusing mess :P

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  21. There's something I don't fully understand: Donna is accusing Harvey of being the one who's keeping them in this relationship and not wanting to move forward. She says he's not willing to date her because he's afraid to risk what they have.

    But wasn't Donna afraid of the same thing up until 4x15? She's the one with the rule that keeps her from dating Harvey. When they met at the diner after sleeping together she's the one who closes the door on any possible romantic relationship. And she's been hiding her feelings just as much as Harvey. When confronted, she says she doesn't love him.

    So why is she acting like it's all him? She's spent almost the whole show exactly as he has: not pursuing a romantic relationship because she's afraid to risk what they have.

    I totally understand if her viewpoint has changed after almost going to prison - anyone would take stock of their lives after something like that. I just don't think it's fair for her to BLAME him like he's the only one who's kept his feelings guarded and forced their relationship to remain as it is.

    Can anyone explain this? I really don't like being annoyed with Donna!!

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    1. Maya here: Yes, I totally agree! Even though for some reason right now I am not annoyed at Donna, I am annoyed at Harvey lol. It would make more sense if he were the one fighting for her after she basically went to prison. I guess she is just annoyed with him because he can't even say how he loves her when she asks "love me how?". If he would answer: "like a sister, i'm not in love with you" I think she would get it and maybe still work for him. But he's not able to tell her that because I believe he actually is IN love with her but as she said, he's afraid to risk it and Donna can't stay in this situation anymore.

      Harvey has always acted like an ass when she dated someone else like with Huntly in season 3...he told her "your focus is not where it usually is" don't know if you remember that scene when he made name partner.
      And I guess Donna knows that if they stay the same way they are now she will have a hard time on a personal level ( hence the "YOU have everything") because if she ever does find another man Harvey will just act like an ass and expect her to choose him over any other man like always. And that is not fair to Donna, she has basically dedicated her entire life and time to him. If a woman does that for a man she doesn't love I'm sorry but imo it's jus sad!

      So I think she realized all that with his half-declaration of ILY and got sick of the situation and she left to take care of her for a chance!
      But I don't know I feel like this is not creative whatsoever...Season 2: Donna left the firm, S3: Mike leaves the firm and now Donna leaves Harvey again. C'mon writers get your shi* together I feel like they are messing up everything

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    2. Ok but then you have to agree that it seems like Donna has very recently changed her mind about what she wants from Harvey. She was fine with this arrangement until her trial and his ILY, and now all of a sudden she's changed her tune. Yet, she's accusing Harvey of being the only party who's been holding them back. I think it was both of them.

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    3. Well, when you think there's a pretty good chance that you could spend years of your life behind bars, I think you probably take stock of some things. I would imagine it could definitely change your perspective. So I think Donna is dealing with that. Plus, I think she has always valued the honesty in her relationship with Harvey. They have always been such straight shooters with each other. But if you think about it, slowly over time, as their feelings have grown, they've gotten more dishonest in order to maintain the status quo.

      Donna had a line once where she told Harvey that Scotty didn't tell him she loved him because she knew it would drive him away. And I think she understood that because it's the same for her. And Harvey was a passive aggressive ass for multiple episodes when Donna was dating Stephen. And even when he admitted that it bothered him, he couldn't really let go and admit WHY. I just think that as their feelings became harder to suppress it became more necessary to lie to each other about them. And now it's a habit, and a destructive one for them to have real lives.

      I think that going to trial was Donna's "Come to Jesus" moment. And I really think it was for Harvey too. But he immediately backtracked. And I think when he indicated that he told Donna that he loved her out of pity, along with refusing to answer HOW he loves her, Donna just could see that their relationship was unhealthy for both of them, but especially her. She just realized that she couldn't keep lying to them both that what they had was just work related. Harvey's unwillingness to be honest was just the final straw. It made it completely clear that if she stayed working with Harvey nothing would change. She wouldn't get to have a real relationship either with him or someone else.

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    4. Maya, in response to harumscarum : yes, i do believe she was holding them back also but she had never heard Harvey say the ILY to her. And after it happened he just ignored it like it was nothing and she wanted to talk about it. That is why she confronted him but he just would not give her a straight answer. And that is what pissed her off to the point she decided to leave. Do I think it was the best decision? No, I actually believe the writers could have found something much better and more creative to do with Darvey but that is what they chose.
      And also the fact that she almost went to prison made her see things differently and they way Louis treated her as opposed to Harvey.

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    5. harumscarum: So why is she acting like it's all him? She's spent almost the whole show exactly as he has: not pursuing a romantic relationship because she's afraid to risk what they have.

      VERY GOOD QUESTION. Thank you all to taking a stab at answering that. Okay, so here's the thing: Donna's anger has so much less to do with Harvey deciding he wants to be in a relationship than Harvey just being HONEST with her. That's the one thing Donna Paulsen values most above all else, right? She values honesty. And she knows Harvey inside out -- that he's scared an insecure and emotionally guarded. But she's always known him to be honest, even when he's honestly wrong about something. So let's think about this episode, shall we? This is an episode where Louis said that you have to tell the people you love that you care about them before it's too late. In Harvey's office, when Donna gets asked by him: "You want everything?" she says she honestly doesn't know.

      But she's being totally honest and upfront with him and all she's asking for is for him to do the same. But he's unwilling to do that. He's trying to skirt his way around even answering the question. She asks him bluntly: "Love me HOW?" and he can't do that. And THAT is what frustrates her most of all: the man she cares about just told her the night before that he loves her, that he will always protect her, that with her it's different... and he can't even tell her what that MEANS? He can't even tell her that he's unsure?

      That's maddening. When Donna is standing before him just wanting him to address what happened, he pretends like it didn't. And then when she goes back to him at the end of the episode, instead of telling her what it meant, he prepares this huge speech for her that'll skirt around the statement. AGAIN.

      Donna doesn't want Harvey to say he wants a relationship because she's not even sure that she does. All she wants is for him to have a frank, honest discussion with her and he can't even do that? So if she doesn't have honesty with Harvey on something THIS big and THIS fundamental in their relationship... she can't do that. She can't live with that. And I wouldn't expect her to.

      Does that kind of make sense?

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    6. It does. But...(OK I'm SO SORRY, I keep coming up with contradictions to you guys, but it's actually because I'm feeling really sad and confused about Darvey (especially Donna's actions) right now and I like to be reassured by your words)....didn't Donna already know Harvey isn't completely honest with her about things?
      In 2x05 in the bathroom confrontation when Harvey says she's not supposed to keep things from him, she shouts back "You keep things from me all the time!".

      So....she already KNOWS he's not always honest with her. This isn't the first time. So her leaving only because he's not being honest sounds a bit far-fetched now. It's not something that's come into play recently....

      Thoughts?

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    7. harumscarum: Haha, don't apologize for sharing opinions! I love hearing other people's thoughts on the episodes and on their interpretations of certain scenes.

      So....she already KNOWS he's not always honest with her. This isn't the first time. So her leaving only because he's not being honest sounds a bit far-fetched now. It's not something that's come into play recently....

      Here's the difference though, in my opinion: this is a HUGE thing to be dishonest about -- a relationship-altering thing, really. It's clear from Donna's face after he said ILY that he's never ever said those words to her before, in any context. Not a joking: "I love you." (He jokingly said: "Marry me.") Not in a serious way. Nothing. Nada. So picture this: Donna presumes Harvey feels something for her -- he just basically confessed that she's different than anyone else to him, that he will always protect her, that he's sorry for how he acted, etc. -- and then when she wonders why... he tells her that he loves her. That's confusing. And exhilarating. And what does it MEAN is Donna's next, appropriate, question?

      So she asks him what it means and then... he can't be honest with her. He's not even willing to TRY to be honest with her. And yeah, sure, he has his secrets and I'm sure he literally doesn't tell Donna everything. And she knows that about him. She knows that he's emotionally guarded. Which is why that ILY is THAT MUCH MORE IMPORTANT: because he's never done that before. So what does it mean? That's all Donna really wants to know. She just wants to know what happened. Does he... feel that way toward her? Does he want to start something? Does he regret it?

      All she wants is for him to have a conversation with her. And the reason she expects this time to be different is because it IS different: it's on an entirely different plane than anything he's ever said to her before. Which is why it's more important than anything he's ever kept guarded and let surface before. But essentially Donna's frustration is that Harvey isn't treating it like that. AT ALL. And he's not treating her like that, either.

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  22. Another thing I'm confused about that I hope you all can help me with: the conversation at the end of 4x15, Harvey says with Donna it's different and then he says he should go. Donna asks why, he says she knows, she seems unsure, he says she knows he loves him.

    I initially assumed her question was "Why is it different with me?" and he eventually says it's because he loves her.

    But was her question really "Why do you have to leave/Why can't we sleep together?"? His ILY response to that seems kind of out of place, but then it helps the idea that he felt sorry for her, so he said it out of pity (I'm obviously not getting over the pity thing any time soon).

    So my question to you all is: What exactly were they talking about there?!

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    1. I am of the opinion that she was asking why it's different with her. And his response was in answer to that question. I know AK gave an interview saying something else. But I feel that was clearly the way the scene was acted. And honestly the dialogue doesn't make sense in the other context.

      I think that when Harvey responded to Donna that he said it to make her feel better, that it was honestly him trying to backtrack on his confession. He isn't ready to really acknowledge those feelings and what that statement really meant. Her reaction to him basically saying he told her that out of pity caused him to immediately backtrack on that. Poor Harvey. He just kept digging himself deeper because he's so unwilling to feel feelings.

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    2. I think she was kind of asking both, because it was sort of situational. Like if he had just said that with her it's different and then changed the subject, she wouldn't have asked why - obviously she's different. And if he had just decided he should go without any previous meaningful statement, she wouldn't have said anything either.

      But he said that whole thing and then stared at her, and then said that he SHOULD go, like what he said was about to lead to something bad. And I think her question was, "Why SHOULD you go after telling me that? What did you mean?"

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  23. Hi. First of all, I would just like to say that I love this review. It's so insightful and conveys exactly what I thought of Darvey. And yes, I'm also a Darvey fan. And I totally agree that Donna was right to leave Harvey for Louis. I understand where Donna is coming from. It's not healthy for her anymore to continue working for someone who would rather pretend that his ILY never happened. I mean how could anyone work after that? IMO, Donna didn't leave to punish or hurt Harvey. I think it was a wakeup call for her to start standing up for herself.

    Second, in response to harumscarum's question about Donna: From what I've read in that confrontation scene, Donna wasn't blaming Harvey for keeping his feelings guarded. Nor was she forcing him to have a romantic relationship with her. She's angry because he wasn't being honest with her when she asked him to explain his ILY. He refused to acknowledge that he has romantic feelings for her. But I think what angered her the most was the fact that he led her on and strung her along with that ILY. Based on the surprised expression on her face in that last scene in Intent, she didn't expect to hear those words from Harvey. And I think that in her mind, that gave her the hope and a window of opportunity to finally go after what she longed for. That's why she wanted an explanation from Harvey - of what he really meant by that ILY. He could have easily replied, "I love you as a friend" or "I love you like a sister," and I think Donna would be fine with that. At least she knew the truth. But he didn't, and he couldn't answer her. And that was painful for her.

    IMO, Donna has been in love with Harvey for years and has kept it a secret. I think she didn't expect to fall for him eventually when she told Harvey in that flashback episode in the diner to forget "the other time." But when she eventually fell for him, she realized he wasn't ready to have a relationship so she let it go.

    But one thing that also bugs me is that did Harvey know that she has feelings for him all this time, or was he oblivious to it all until that scene in her apartment in the Intent ep? Harvey said in previous episodes that he has a knack for reading people, and maybe he read through Donna after all?

    Just my two cents. :-)

    And once again, kudos to this fantastic review!

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    1. Hello there! First of all, thank you SO much for commenting on this review and for saying such great and positive things. I am so glad that you enjoyed it. :)

      IMO, Donna didn't leave to punish or hurt Harvey. I think it was a wakeup call for her to start standing up for herself.

      1000000000% this. It wasn't about Donna being spiteful. It was about Donna realizing that Harvey can't be honest with her about this anymore and their arrangement? It only works if there's honesty. Parallel this with Louis throughout the episode -- he was grieving and angry but he came to Donna and essentially said: "Thank you. I listened to you. I respect you."

      Donna loves Harvey and that is precisely the reason she walked away -- because if he loves her or if he doesn't is irrelevant. He didn't respect her enough to be honest with her about how he felt, either way. And that doesn't fly with Donna. Not even a little bit.

      BLESS YOU for the discussion about honesty. That's what is missing in Donna's mind. No matter how Harvey feels, he needs to be honest with her, even if it means (like she says to him) saying he's unsure of what he wants.

      But one thing that also bugs me is that did Harvey know that she has feelings for him all this time, or was he oblivious to it all until that scene in her apartment in the Intent ep? Harvey said in previous episodes that he has a knack for reading people, and maybe he read through Donna after all?

      You know, that's a really good question. I think they both know how they feel about each other but are too afraid to vocalize it for fear of being wrong, or... even more terrifying... for fear of being RIGHT. Because once you're right about that sort of thing, you can't ever un-know it. And I think Harvey values the status quo with Donna more than honesty. So I think he has to know, but he pretends he doesn't.

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  24. For the first time (it had to happen sometime) I don´t agree with you..... I think Donna and Felicity are a lot alike... but Felicity would never abandon Arrow as his IT girl.....
    I totally get why Donna is so upset.... but I don´t think it goes with her character to leave Harvey and go work for Louis..... I really don´t... she could have decided to stop caring so much about him, or even start dating someone and try to forget him....... but with what she did she´s saying something like: "I only worked for you these past years because I really thought in the end we´ll end up together, now that I´ve seen we won´t I leave you" .... And I don´t like to think that about Donna... (I really hate when someone is the best friend of someone else just because he/she is waiting for something else to happen, and when it doesn´t, that person doesn´t matter/care anymore.... and for me that´s not friendship of any kind.....).
    So I loved the episode, I loved that Donna said I love you before leaving... but I didn´t like that part.
    The rest was great..... Louis, the proposal, Jessica pining over Jeff (whom I hope comes back), Marcus... everything! I can´t wait for season 5... and Harvey´s reaction to all that happened here!! :)

    Bri

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    1. But the problem is that continuing to work for Harvey would keep Donna from having a life outside of him. She's had over a decade to learn that lesson. Harvey's reliance on Donna goes so far outside the bounds of just being a secretary. And Donna has a very hard time setting boundaries with Harvey. Really they both have that issue. Their relationship invades every part of their lives but that last step to true intimacy. If Donna had stayed working for Harvey, not only would they never take that last step. But she would never be able to really break away from Harvey and find it somewhere else either. Donna decided she wanted more out of life, and she realized that she couldn't get it staying with Harvey. Donna didn't leave Harvey because he doesn't love her. She left Harvey because she loves him, and she could no longer just accept the role he was willing to give her. She chose her needs over his. And good for her. She's not responsible for Harvey's happiness. She has to live her life for herself.

      The case of Oliver and Felicity is a bit different because it involves a cause they are both passionate about. But even there, Felicity stepped out of that cave with Oliver and started to forge a new life. And honestly, if things were to work out with Ray, the time would come where she would have to chose. Because you can't work that closely with someone, and have those kind of feelings between you, and think that you can just move on with your life with someone else.

      With both of these couples, who would ever be willing to accept those relationships. Who would ever be comfortable with another person having that kind of influence, and importance to the person you love. And how do you really move on from the love you have for someone if you still have that close of a relationship. You can't. So leaving, for both these women, would really be the only way to truly move on. Donna reached that point. Felicity isn't there yet. But if Oliver doesn't pull his head out soon, she'll get there.

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    2. But then it goes back to what blue crush said, didn't it? Donna can only leave Harvey because she's mad at him for not moving things forward IF she knows that he knows how she feels. If he doesn't even know then her leaving is actually pretty dramatic. I mean I would say Harvey obviously must know because its so obvious from her actions. But maybe, like her, he knew but he didn't KNOW, so....

      I've realized the more I talk about this the more confused I get. Donna and Harvey have never been so confusing!

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    3. But I think that Donna's thinking is that HER feelings don't matter, because HARVEY isn't prepared to even analyze and be honest about his. I think in her mind, when Harvey refused to answer HOW he loved her, that was Harvey refusing to even discuss a change in their relationship. And Donna, not matter if Harvey knows her feelings or not, wasn't ok with just continuing what they had. It wasn't enough for HER. Donna totally made a selfish choice, but it really is ok for Donna to put her needs first.

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    4. I think in her mind, when Harvey refused to answer HOW he loved her, that was Harvey refusing to even discuss a change in their relationship. And Donna, not matter if Harvey knows her feelings or not, wasn't ok with just continuing what they had. It wasn't enough for HER. Donna totally made a selfish choice, but it really is ok for Donna to put her needs first.

      Hallelujah, AMEN. It's not that Donna is mad at him and walks out for not wanting a relationship. Remember, again, that SHE isn't sure what she wants. She walks out because out of all the things Donna thought she and Harvey had, complete and total honesty and transparency was at the top. And now she realizes he tells her he loves her and he can't even be honest about how he's feeling or what that means? Donna doesn't care if he says: "I love you but not like that" or "I love you in every romantic sense of the word." All she wants is for them to be honest and discuss HOW he meant that and he can't do that for her. Which is what she realizes.

      She realizes that Louis respects her. He may not always agree with her and he may treat her badly when he's angry and grieving, but he genuinely comes to Donna and tells her that without her, he wasn't sure of how he was feeling. And he needs her. Harvey didn't do that. At all. And that's what makes the decision to leave much easier for her -- because at least with Louis, there's respect and honesty and openness there, even to the point of being vulnerable.

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    5. Hello there, darling Bri!

      I know we will disagree on this but I'm not sure I agree with Felicity would never abandon Arrow as his IT girl. I mean, Donna leaving Harvey was less of her leaving her job and more of her realizing she loved herself more. Felicity HAS walked out before and away from Oliver when she realizes he's placing himself above her. And that doesn't fly for either of these women.

      I really, as I said above and in a few comments, don't think Donna leaving was about her wanting to be with Harvey. And I don't think her working for him as long as she has was ever about that. It was always about partnership. Donna said it before, that she and Harvey are like THIS (*interlocks fingers together*). She and Harvey always had, above all, this trust and respect. He snapped at her but she stood her ground; he eventually apologized. They're not perfect but she never asked him to be something he's not. She never wanted him to be her boyfriend or anything like that. All she wanted was for him to be honest. And the MOMENT HE IS AT HIS MOST HONEST (with that "I love you"), the next day, he turns around and hides. And he refuses to be honest. He doesn't just put up emotional walls, but he puts up trust issues now that Donna never had before. That can't work for her. She can't be with someone, romantic or not, who doesn't value being honest and who hides behind things.

      Harvey needed to be a man and go to Donna and talk to her about their issues. Instead, he hid from her. He avoided her. And he avoided the confrontation because that was scary to him. So he lost her, plain and simple. And Oliver did the same to Felicity -- he lost her because he couldn't be honest; he lost her because he let her in, only to push her away. Do you blame either of them?

      Just like Felicity working for Oliver was never about her waiting around for one day Oliver to decide to have a relationship, so Donna and Harvey were never like that. Both women just wanted honesty and respect from their partners and those men couldn't even do that. I think them walking away has everything to do with the response to that refusal.

      Thanks for your comments, Bri! Even if we disagree, I'm glad that we have healthy discussions here. :)

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    6. As Harumscarum said: "I've realized the more I talk about this the more confused I get" I see all your points, but I don´t really understand how she worked for the same closed person all those years and this happens now... Ok, maybe it was meant to happen someday, yes... but..... I don´t know, I don´t even make sense anymore!!
      Jennifer I agree with you: when Oliver acted all almighty Felicity walked out, of course..... But I think in this case Harvey isn´t acting like that... he´s just being himself... he´s really close when he has to talk about his feelings.... and Donna knows it! Half the progress he made with Scottie was because of Donna, because Donna guided him.... so she knows he´s like that.... For me, Harvey´s silence wasn´t a lie, was the difficulty to express himself with someone he could really care about (see what I did there ;) ), actually one of the people he cares the most about!!
      I don´t know..... we´ll see. I hope you are right in your predictions (I want number one too, although... poor Louis).
      Lovely to discuss it with you (and everybody else) as always! :)

      Bri

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    7. And now I just found this:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9W1yqvaohk

      and I think it may help explain why Donna left......

      Bri

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  25. As Anon says, I read Donna's move as "I only worked for you these past years because I really thought in the end we´ll end up together, now that I´ve seen we won´t I leave you", but I don't see how this isn't something Donna won't do...

    She’s been guiding Harvey to open up about his feelings with other relationships, being Scottie the best example. Maybe she didn’t do this especifically for her own benefit eventually, but I think she realizes in “Intent” that she’s been hiding her feelings and can’t work for him anymore if discussing their feelings is not on the table.

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    1. I think she realizes in “Intent” that she’s been hiding her feelings and can’t work for him anymore if discussing their feelings is not on the table.

      I again just think it's partially true but more about the fact that now she can't discuss anything touchy with Harvey without him closing her off, right? Like... how can she trust him to be honest and open with her again if he can't even be honest and open with her about THIS?

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  26. I’m so excited for Season 5 to come!

    Here are my Season 5 predicitions:

    -Harvey will be furious, out of his mind, errant,... (sorry for my limited vocabulary, I speak English as a foreign language). We can’t forget that he hates changes and he always said “Nobody leaves me”. So, the impact of Donna leaving him I think will make him erratic. Mike will be the one to tell him to get his shit together, just like Harvey did for him when Grammy died.
    -Donna will feel more free and in control of her live than ever, so she’ll open herself to love. I see her with a new love interest (the perfect-guy-on-paper) who offers her a life and a future. Forcing Harvey to make a move if he doesn’t want to lose her forever.
    -Rachel and Mike won’t marry eventually. Their love and trust will be tested all through the season but in the last moment, they won’t take the plunge. I see this happening in the season finale. And Rachel’s father finding out that Mike’s not really a lawyer will be a breaking point.
    -As I said in a previous comment, Louis will bring Harvey and Donna together. He’ll realize he can’t have with Donna what she has with Harvey because they have such a strong bond that can’t compare to anything.
    -Jessica will be more coldhearted than ever. And we’ll see her focusing more than ever on her firm, and closing the door to all opportunitites to be in a relationship.
    -About Donna’s replacement... I’m totaly clueless! I see some options: a) a man, b) an old and wise woman, similar to Donna in the sense that she will speak her mind, or c) (not very likely) Mike’s former secretary at Sidwell.

    Any thoughts on this? Do you have any predictions?

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    1. Anna! I love your predictions. Let me see here:

      1) I totally do think Harvey will be prickly, to say the least, when we return this summer. He's not going to take fondly to being rejected by the one person who he never thought would leave him ESPECIALLY since she's leaving him for Louis, someone Harvey has a more hate than love relationship with. I expect moody!Harvey to appear quite often and for Mike and Rachel to be caught in the middle of it all, trying to mediate their mom and dad. ;)

      2) I'm not sure if I see Donna with a new love interest (my worry is that Harvey will return to some womanizing ways in his loss of Donna), but I totally do see her feeling more free. I also predict that she'll feel conflicted though over wanting to help Harvey because it's her instinct, but having her loyalties with Louis now.

      3) Ooooooooh that season finale prediction for Mike/Rachel is GOOD. I think something will happen between them. I'm not sure I foresee a happily ever after in their future, but I presume wedding stress + Harvey/Donna caught-in-the-middle stress will put a damper on their relationship eventually.

      4) I so so so so want Louis to be the one to let Donna go back. Whether or not it's because he gets a new assistant, I just can't bear the thought of someone ELSE leaving him. It would also provide some great character growth if HE is the one to let HER go, you know?

      5) I can't see Jessica being coldhearted, but I feel like she definitely will throw herself more into business as a distraction from losing Jeff. And I think Harvey will be the one to call her out on that.

      6) I think Mike's former secretary is a really good guess as to how Donna will be replaced! Otherwise, I can't think of anything else really. But we all know there is no replacement for Donna. ;)

      Thank you for your comments, as always! :D

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    2. I see a lot of people online saying they hope Amy will replace Donna. Am I the only one who didn't like her? She was so much like Donna that it annoyed the hell out of me because THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE DONNA.

      When we found out she wasn't as loyal to Mike as Donna was to Harvey, I took that as a small, but important victory. Does that make me immature? =P

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    3. I liked Amy, but I don't want to see her replace Donna. I kind of want to see a revolving secretary for a while. Because, as Harvey once said, Donna is irreplaceable. And maybe it would be nice to see Harvey finally settle on a guy as his secretary. Let's break the female secretary stereotype. And that would help with my endgame of Harvey having a normal secretary relationship, and Donna for everything else. :)

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    4. what I would love to see actually would be Harvey changing secretaries every couple of days lol, that would kinda be funny like 3 secretaries in 2 weeks or something. Just to show how much Donna is irreplaceable!

      Some said that the new secretary will be hot and what Donna did will come back to bite her in the ass because Harvey will flirt with his new secretary. I swear to God if that happens I will be soooooo pissed because it will just make me think Harvey is a d*ck and it would be absolute bad writing. So I hope they don't go down the road: "I'm gonna make Donna jealous with my new secretary"...because that would just make things so much worst.

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    5. Honestly, anon, I can see one of two things happening and it's not Harvey falling for his new secretary. Here is what would happen if I wrote for the show (*cough*):

      1) Harvey would refuse a new secretary altogether. I can see him being stubborn and refusing to hire a replacement for Donna. This would obviously lead to Mike and Rachel being frustrated and Harvey taking the brunt of his anger and frustration out on them. It would culminate in a conversation where Jessica insists Harvey hire someone to replace Donna and then she realizes WHY he's not hiring anyone without him saying it -- if he hires a replacement, it means she's actually gone and he has to stop pretending she'll come back. BAM. Scenario 1.

      2) Scenario 2 would be him hiring someone to replace Donna and keeping his distance for that person. I can't see Harvey being petty and jealous, but I CAN see him being really dismissive of whoever fills her place. He's not going to like them because they're not Donna.

      Personally I prefer the first scenario, but I don't write for the show. Or else that is exactly how it would happen. ;)

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    6. Yeah Jen sadly you don't write for the show but can you please lol? :P I would so watch it I bet it would be so much better haha...and I love your scenario #1 a lot!

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    7. In response to your predictions Jenn, I think it'll be the first scenario because 1) it's more depressing to watch, and 2) they basically did the other scenario in season 2 didn't they?

      I think he'll eventually hire a secretary and the secretary will actually be pretty great at his/her job BUT obviously Harvey won't be happy because he didn't just like having Donna around because she's a great secretary...he wanted her around because he loved her.

      Despite the obvious positives of this possibility I have to say I do not want the new secretary to be too good.....like, I will not be happy if he/she is anywhere near as good as Donna. It'll dilute Donna's awesomeness.

      If they're actually stupid enough to go down the Harvey-tries-to-make-Donna-jealous-with-new-secretary route I will be done with this show.

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    8. I would really love for something like the first scenario to happen. Because also, Jessica was the one Harvey told about Donna being irreplaceable and who he convinced to hire her in the first place.

      Despite the obvious positives of this possibility I have to say I do not want the new secretary to be too good.....like, I will not be happy if he/she is anywhere near as good as Donna. It'll dilute Donna's awesomeness.

      Agreed, and then you have to wonder if whether or not they'll replace Donna and make Harvey realize that he can live without her? I feel like for her to come back though, it's gonna have to be him realizing he CAN'T. And he could have a good secretary for that -- even a great one, but they won't be Donna.

      If they're actually stupid enough to go down the Harvey-tries-to-make-Donna-jealous-with-new-secretary route I will be done with this show.

      The oldest, tritest trope in the book and the most annoying one, to boot. I would definitely hate that.

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  27. hey new anon here: You know what, the show presents Harvey Specter as this amazing closer who is so good at his job and always takes risks and fights for his clients til he drops...but actually when you come to think of it, he is a bit of a coward! I believe a truly brave person is someone who admits they are wrong, they admit they need help and are not ashamed to ask for it, and they are not ashamed or scared to talk about how they feel. Harvey however never has! I love the character but I do believe it is time for him to get a major developpement and I hope that is coming with Donna. I wish we see him take a REAL risk for once in his life because come to think of it, being with Donna would be the biggest risk he woudl ever take. Because she is his everything and if it does not work with her he would really lose her. And I think he is super scared of that because he knows how bad eh is at relationships. I think that is why he freaked out so much in the past 2 episodes. I guess it's time for Harvey to prove how brave he really is (sorry if I made mistakes, english is not my first language :P) And awesome blog you have going on here btw I am so gonna check it from now on

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  28. UPDATE UPDATE http://www.eonline.com/news/633549/spoiler-chat-scoop-on-scandal-good-wife-homeland-nashville-big-bang-and-more
    Looks like Harvey is headed to therapy! Wonder what is gonna come of this.

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    1. I am 110% here for this as long as his therapist doesn't become his love interest because I have seen that trope play out WAY too many times and never successfully, lol.

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    2. Please, please don't have Harvey get romantically involved with his therapist. Not only is it so played out, but really its HUGELY inappropriate from a doctor/patient standpoint. But with Donna gone, it makes sense that Harvey would need to find someone to explain his feelings to him. Plus he does have those mommy issues he needs to deal with, so that he'll actually be emotionally ready for a real relationship. But yeah, if he sleeps with his therapist? I'm gonna be pissed.

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    3. Wow! That's such a spoiler! Thanks for sharing! It'd SOOO fun to watch ;) I agree: not cool if Harvey hooks up with the therapist...

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    4. NO NO NO! Harvey doesn't need a therapist he needs Donna, DONNA! I swear if they make her his love interest I am done with Suits

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    5. ** her meaning the therapist! If the therapist is a woman lol

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    6. http://tvline.com/2015/03/10/empire-season-2-spoilers-lucious-cookie/
      "The show is looking for an actress in her late 30s to early 60s to play Harvey’s new, no-nonsense shrink."
      Doesn't sound like a love interest to me. And I don't think the writers would go there anyways.

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    7. I'm actually really excited about this! I think Donna leaving him is the wake-up call that Harvey needs to get his life together. And if this shrink is able to help him understand WHY he has so many emotional issues and work through them in a healthy way, that's just going to push him closer to Donna. And I'm totally all for that!

      But so help me if they go the "Harvey falls for his shrink" route (which I don't think they will but still it does concern me that she's a woman therapist, I'll rage about it here. ;)

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    8. I’m so excited about Harvey getting a shrink and starting an emotional journey. That’d be soooo fun to watch! And I think that confirms one of the predictions we talked about and that is Harvey starting the season errant and out of control, refusing to accept the aftermath of it all. Maybe he’ll turn to drinking or gambling (Hey! What about he starts gambling and his brother Marcus has to make an appearance?? And saves Harvey like he did for his little brother 12 years ago.. We know how this Suits writters like parallelisms, right?...) OK, that’s such a big guess, but I’m sharing it with you... :P

      So, returning to the shrink plot, I see Jessica having to take a drastic decision making him choose between firing him or getting his shit together. So, of course, Harvey would be forced to go. I can’t see him going on his own will, that’s for sure!

      And I honestly think the writers won’t go the romantic road with these two (Harvey/shrink). Just because she’s a woman doesn’t mean that they have to get involved. I know Harvey may be kind of a womanizer but not till that point.

      Delete
    9. Well Harvey getting a shrink can be a good thing, is a way to evolve Harvey´s character? although I must confess that when I heard about the shrink, her being his new love interest crossed my mind.

      Really off topic (sorry) Anna are you from Barcelona?

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    10. Yes, I am :) It's difficult to go incognito with that usename :P

      Delete
    11. OK I feel like I'm alone in thinking this, but I do NOT want Harvey to go to therapy! That's just so...UN-Harvey! He would never go. And share his feelings. With a complete stranger. And also PAY FOR IT. What?!

      I really hope Jessica forces him to go because wth I do not see how it could happen any other way.

      I'm also not sure I agree that Donna leaving is even enough for him to require therapy. YES, it's huge. YES, it's life-altering. But, therapy? Harvey Specter? Idk...

      And finally, of course my biggest issue with this is that hello, DONNA IS SUPPOSED TO BE HIS THERAPIST IN LIFE!! ='( I feel like a therapist is almost redundant. What if they try to tell us the shrink understands Harvey even better than Donna ever could? I will not accept any attempt at cheapening the Darvey we've got so far.

      Does this mean they won't be having any deep talks next season? I always imagined that even though Donna is working for Louis, she'd still give Harvey guidance and advice when he really needed it. She's not so heartless as to let Harvey be completely lost....IS SHE? =(

      And one of those spoiler links says she'll be around all season? So Harvey is gonna be messed up all season? So Donna won't be helping him for a whole season? So Donna won't come back FOR THE WHOLE SEASON?

      I honestly believed she'd be back in 5-6 episodes. This show is giving me more and more reasons to not watch.

      SO.MUCH.SADNESS. *cries into a pillow*

      ( Sorry. Darvey brings out too many emotions)

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    12. I cannot stop thinking about the EOnline spoiler which says the shrink will play a major role in his life throughout the season.

      She's a therapist. With a major role in his life. And she's lasting the whole season.

      And ALL I can think is that this must mean that Donna's not coming back till end of the season. I mean that is what it means right? Because if Donna came back then she could be Harvey's therapist again, couldn't she? But since Harvey has a shrink for the whole season, it means Donna is not coming back till this time next year.

      Guys. I don't think I'd want to watch if Donna and Harvey weren't being awesome and kicking ass together by the 7th episode.

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    13. So here's an interview Korsh did with TVInsider:

      Don't expect this split to be short-lived. "She will be working with Louis for a bit," Korsh warns. "When we end a season on something, we try not to undo it quickly because I feel that is a bit of a cheat. And we want to make this [situation] last as long as we can."

      To me, that sounds like: "We're not going to have her immediately jump back into her job an episode or two in, because that would be really easy and cheating the audience." BUT it doesn't sound like "a bit" = all season.

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    14. Yea when I read that interview I was more more confident that she'd be with Louis for 5-6 episodes and not just 2-3. But the EOnline thing makes it sound like she'll be working for Louis (or not for Harvey, which is what really matters) for the majority of the season. That is something I cannot make peace with. Fun Donna/Harvey is such an integral part of the show. When the rest of the storylines are getting all dark and depressing, there's always Donna to make Harvey's day a little better. To make our days a little better. Now we won't get that for a loooooong time. I mean sure we'll still have Donna around, but her banter with Louis, while very funny, is not the same as her banter with Harvey.

      Darvey banter is a necessary ingredient to this show...

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    15. Yeah, but I guess I'm confused as to why everyone thinks it's a bad thing that Harvey is going to therapy?... It's a really good thing. Because he needs a professional. He needs to work through his issues if he'll ever have a successful relationship with Donna.

      Okay, let's think of it this way: just say, for all intents and purposes, that Harvey and Donna did start a relationship and though Harvey pursued her, he still had all this emotional baggage he dealt with. It's not that he doesn't want to talk to Donna, but Donna doesn't have a degree. So there would be this separation there, one that can only be bridged by a professional telling Harvey what she believes the root of his problem is. Because Donna understands why Harvey puts up walls and maybe she's right but maybe there's something else that Harvey is repressing or simply not telling her. And that's what therapy is for.

      IMO, therapy doesn't diminish the importance of Donna being in Harvey's life. Yes, this therapist is going to be a consistent presence but that's GOOD. Because if she wasn't, it would mean Harvey gave up on trying to better himself. And then where would we be for a potential Harvey/Donna relationship? (Answer: a bad place. If you don't deal with your crap, you can't be in a relationship with someone no matter how well you think you know each other).

      The article didn't say anything about DONNA being apart from Harvey. It just said that this therapist would be around. And that's important. Because it means Harvey is actually focused on getting better. And being better means he's in a better place with Donna.

      AGAIN: This doesn't mean these two won't share a connection. In fact, the more time he spends in therapy, I bet the BETTER their connection will be because Harvey's walls will start to come down. And this time, he has someone holding him professionally accountable if he puts them back up again.

      So really, this is an amazing thing. This is showing growth in Harvey -- that he either is forced to or wants to change himself so he can be a better person: the kind of person who can be in a relationship with Donna, perhaps?

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    16. Me too Anna, that´s why I asked.

      harumscarum I undertand you. I am trying really really hard to be optimistic, I really do, but it´s difficult.

      If I have to be honest, my main concern is Aaron and the writers, I don´t trust them. On one hand Kudos to them for creating Harvey and Donna and their relationship, make it so unique and beautiful above all.

      But on the other hand, the interviews that we got after the ILY episode killed me big time. I don´t know what they have in mind, if whatever they decide to do will be believable or not (although it´s impossible to please everybody, I am aware of that). That they can change things out of the blue just for the sake of surprising the audience.

      I will be pissed if after four years and all the hints that we got (more and more year by year) nothing happens in the end. For me they are the love story of the show (with all due respect to Mike and Rachel). I am big fan of love stories rooted in friendship, I can´t help it.

      As for the next season, well the therapy thing can be a good thing in the long run. Don´t get me wrong I don´t like that Donna is working for Louis now, it will be strange not seeing Donna and Harvey together but I hope that this is a good thing in the end, and that Donna sooner or later will go back to Harvey. But I am also aware that IF that happens won´t be in the first half of the season, at least.

      I also think that Harvey needs to figure things out by himself. Yes Harvey and Donna have had deep talks and she helped him to be more open, but as far as them is concerned I think that Harvey needs to think what he wants and in that regard Donna can´t help him. And Donna maybe has to think about it too.

      Delete
  29. Hi all :) I just wanted to give my opinion on what the writers are doing and I'm doing this in a separate comment because it's an answer to several, I think.

    I also agree that it's annoying that they're putting across this impression that they're just playing around with Donna and Harvey and aren't really sure where they're going, BUT frankly I think they're just lying, right from their faces into our faces. This might just be wishful thinking, but I cannot accept that they are not going in a romantic direction here, or that they don't realise that they are, because that would imply to me that the writers are accidentally talking about a different show.

    These last two episodes were extremely in our faces, and there's virtually no room for misinterpretation. When Harvey said his first I love you, it could have been platonic EXCEPT ... it was delivered in an extremely meaningful way followed by a hasty exit, Donna was shocked and Harvey looked even more overwhelmed as he left, and then the episode ended with a distinctly cliffhangery feel to it. Plus the music, with the lyrics "I think it's strange you never knew."

    Then we even start the next episode immediately after that moment with him still looking all dazed and introspective, sitting in the car and staring out the window with a very solemn expression while reminiscing on how they first met. See, to me, all that's more than enough. You don't write/play something like that with so much drama unless it meant something, you know?

    But they didn't even stop there. With Donna's confrontation with Harvey, I mean, they flat out SAY it. She points out, aloud and in words, that he sees her that way but he's too scared to do anything about it because he doesn't want to risk anything. And he answers her with, "Because we have everything," ... he's agreeing with her, he's accepting her premise as true. He just admitted that he loves her that way, but doesn't want to risk anything. This is NOT open for interpretation! They are actually talking about a romantic relationship, whether Harvey is being mature about it or not.

    And that conversation confirmed that he meant his I love you in the romantic sense. So when she said it back to him at the end, she could only have meant it romantically back. None of this is maybe-this-is-platonic-maybe-it-isn't. It's completely blatant.

    I think the writers are being vague about it for the same reasons they write cliffhangers ... they don't want to confirm anything because they want people to watch the show to find their answers, so they're playing the mystery game. But come on, they're not idiots, they know what they're doing. Just keep calm don't take their gameplaying as accurate.

    That's what I think anyway.

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    1. Hello lovely new anon! First off, thank you for sharing your comments and your thoughts. :D

      Plus the music, with the lyrics "I think it's strange you never knew."

      THANK YOU FOR POINTING OUT THE MUSIC. It's clear from the music director's perspective that Harvey was confessing he loved her romantically. The lyrics... well they basically confirm that.

      (Also it was a great song choice.)

      I think the writers are being vague about it for the same reasons they write cliffhangers ... they don't want to confirm anything because they want people to watch the show to find their answers, so they're playing the mystery game. But come on, they're not idiots, they know what they're doing. Just keep calm don't take their gameplaying as accurate.

      I agree with this to an extent. I do think the writers must have SOME idea of where they want to take Harvey and Donna. But like I said in the review, the same thing happened to Jeff and Annie -- the writers saw one interpretation of the scene while the actors were portraying a totally different one. So the real question is about intent and portrayal. They can INTEND for a scene to read one way but the way it's going to be conveyed is how the actor portrays that scene. THAT is what the audience will see and understand. But that's what writers like Korsh don't get. He says: "No, no, no, Donna's ILY was basically a 'screw you' to Harvey" and we go: "... But that's not what Sarah Rafferty played it as." So that's where the disconnect is, in this little gap between intent and actual portrayal. That's really where the problem lies. And the only way to fix it is to either a) have your actors strongly convey what you meant with no other interpretations available or b) admit that while you intended for a scene to read one way, it actually LOOKS like it's another way. That last one requires humility though in basically being like: "Huh, clearly I didn't know best." And that's where so many showrunners are unwilling to waver.

      Hopefully that makes sense? At any rate, thank you so much for your comment! It's so well-articulated. :)

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    2. Hello :)

      Yes, what you're saying does make sense, except I truly don't think this IS open for interpretation. I'll exclude all other points in my comment as true or possibly true to what you're saying except one, and that's the confrontation. This is not about how it was acted or directed or interpreted ... it's about what was written:

      Harvey: I said it because I love you and I wanted you to know it.
      Donna: Love me how?
      Harvey: Why does that have to come into-
      Donna: Love me how?
      Harvey: (says nothing)
      Donna: I knew it. You either can't talk about it or you won't, which is bullshit. Because obviously you don't just look at me this way. You're capable of looking at me that way, but you don't want to let those worlds collide because you're afraid to risk anything!
      Harvey: Because we have everything!
      Donna: No, Harvey, you have everything!
      Harvey: So you're saying you want everything?

      I wrote it out because I'm wanting to show what the writers wrote, not how it was played. Forget Gabriel Macht and Sarah Rafferty. Picture anyone else reading those lines or picture no one, just read them. They ARE NOT open for interpretation and it would be a cheap trick if the writers went back on it.

      I see your comparison with Jeff and Annie and until this episode/scene, I think it works well. But this isn't like that anymore. They crossed over now. Haha I think you're a bit traumatised by Community, but claim this one. This is in no one's head, and it's more blatant than most will-they-won't-they relationships in shows where it's accepted as cannon or whatever. I really don't know why the writers are playing the "Gee I don't know let's wait and see" game here.

      I feel strongly about this - as I'm sure you can tell - because I don't like that they're accusing viewers of "interpreting" things. I find it arrogant and patronising, and it's upsetting a lot of people.

      But thanks for your reply :)

      Delete
  30. And Jen please never stop reviewing SUITS!?!! Your blog is officially in my favourites and I will come check it after every episode from now on :) my name is Diana btw I'm one of the many Anons haha

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    1. Diana, thank you so much for your kind words! I'm definitely going to review next season of the show. :D I honestly never thought anyone would read these reviews but I'm so excited so many of you found them. You guys are so sweet and I'm glad you enjoy them. <3

      Delete
  31. To be honest, Harvey going to a therapist doesn't seem like something he would do. It will be interesting how they set that up.

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    1. Right? But I think it must mean (as the commenters said above) that he's either reached a breaking point with Donna leaving where he's forced to realize that he's a mess and the only way he'll ever have a good relationship is if he fixes that or (as they also said) perhaps Jessica forces him to go.

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    2. B-b-but...isn't it possible for DONNA to help Harvey with his emotional baggage so that he can have a relationship with DONNA? I mean. She's just soooo good at it. Can't she just do it? Are they going to tell us that this shrink can do what Donna couldn't do?

      Is it obvious I'm not handling this well?

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    3. Okay, but like... Donna is a subjective party. This therapist is an objective third party who is there to help Harvey understand why he is the way he is and what he needs to do to fix his issues. I love Donna, but I think it's because she's too close to Harvey that he's not able to follow her own advice. This therapist is someone who can do what Donna cannot -- be on the outside looking into his relationships.

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    4. I get what you're saying, and if it were any other couple I'd agree 100% because that is the way it works. But. The show has shown us multiple instances of Donna making Harvey understand why he is the way he is and telling him what he needs to do to fix his issues. So she could do it now...couldn't she? I mean, yea, she's a subjective party, but honestly she was a subjective party when he was dating anyone else too.

      I'm starting to fear that he's going to a therapist because Donna's going to refuse to help him with his emotional baggage. Point blank. And this will break me more than this finale has because it'll make her look heartless.

      Idk. I was not ready for this news today.

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    5. Haha! Yeah, I'm also a bit like "possessive" of Harvey's emotional problems on Donna's behalf ... like how dare he open up to someone else, let alone take the advice of someone else! But, well, he can't with Donna, not for this. She's what he needs help with. I mean, neither of them can think rationally here and anyway, Donna needs him to make up his own mind on this one. She can't tell him what to do regarding herself.

      What would make me feel less irrationally annoyed by it would be if it was Donna's suggestion, but I think that is classified as definite wishful thinking ;-)

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  32. I want to share with you this new info I came across:
    Sarah Rafferty said in a recent interview that she’s been talking to A.Korsch about introducing Donna’s brother, and she even confirmed that they’re considering actor Tom Sadoski whom she’s friends with. Popsugar Interview here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EggHrFo1wJA

    I’d love to mee Donna’s brother or any member of her family!! I’m sure being sassy and witty is in the Paulsen's DNA ;)

    Please, keep the characters’ family members coming!! Harvey’s brother, Jessica’s sister, and now Donna’s brother!! WOW! I think that bringing these characters to the show will make have us a more in-depth information about their backgrounds. As they always say at PSL they all are a big family, but exploring the “real” families behing the characters opens a new window to really knowing them and when they come from.

    Here’s my wishlist for more family members to appear:
    -Harvey’s mom and knowing the story behind. If Harvey’s starting this emotional journey with the shrink, I’m sure their relationship will come up for sure. We have a hint that Harvey’s issues have a lot to do with his mom.
    -Louis’ parents. They appeared in some episode in Season 2 I think but only through a screen. It’d be fun to know more about them.
    -Marcus family: wife and kids.

    Ok, I know this is a lot to ask for but as I said it’s a WISH-list :P

    PS: I’d like to add that it’s been such a gift to have found this space in Jen’s blog to talk in a serious way about Suits. I’ve been following many blogs and reviews on Suits, and none has this kind of in-depth analysis both on the reviewer or the comments. So, thank you Jen for offering us Suitors this amazing debate space and all of you who shared your opinions on the show. It’s been so enriching and rewarding. As other people said, I wished we knew Jen’s blog before, but hey! It’s better late than never ;)
    1000 THANKS JEN!!

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    1. Anna, I would LOVE to see more family members appear. We know virtually nothing about Donna's family so that would be great. And if we're taking a storyline with therapy, we obviously should really see Harvey's mother at some point. Also I want Marcus's family just because I want to see Harvey with tiny children. I'm selfish.

      AWWWWW you are so so kind to me! Honestly, I say this in pretty much every review, but I always want to be a place that has in-depth character discussion and where people feel comfortable in the comments section talking about what worked and what didn't and why a character acted a certain way, etc. I'm thrilled that you all feel comfortable enough to hang out here and do that.

      And you guys are seriously far too kind to me! *blushes* I love doing this and I love how much the site has been able to grow and I always love meeting new people and new fandoms, so thank you all for finding this site and joining in on the fun. <3

      *group hug*

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    2. Anna> Yea, I saw that video too! But I don't know if it's confirmation, I think she was just saying that she pitched the idea and actor to Aaron Korsh...we don't know what he thought of it, do we?

      Jenn> It's ok we can be selfish together ;) "UNCLE HARVEY!" <33333

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    3. I vote for making #uncleharvey next Twitter trending topic jajajajajajaja LOL LOL

      Delete
  33. Hey there! Sorry I'm so late to the discussion but I literally just got here: Last week, I saw some Darvey gifs on Jbuffyangel's blog (I'm a big Olicity fan), so I watched some clips on youtube and it got me HOOKED. Then she posted your review of last week's episode and I got so excited because I always read your ARROW reviews, but that you review this too, is what settled it for me. So I bingewatched SUITS and read all the reviews, but hands down, yours are the best. Thanks for that!
    So, about "Not Just a Pretty Face": The music was exceptional in this one and it underlined Darvey perfectly. In the end, you hear:
    "Watch the wheels roll to find another place home.
    While you were sleeping, you bet that I might
    Walk this empty northern hemisphere wide
    And the kingdom it came, well it all fell down
    It all fell to dust." So the Darvey relationship as a kingdom, sure I loved that (also, it implicated Harvey is too late and everything changed while he was blissfully asleep). And after their first conversation, you get:
    "Oh, the world is all around us,
    Have you noticed me?
    Yeah, the world is all around us,
    Now it's plain to see
    That the world has overshadowed me." That sums up Donna's problem and their whole relationship so beautifully.
    Also, I got goosebumps at their first meeting (the music was again wonderful)! And I think it was done beautifully how in one episode, they showed her approaching him (SHE found HIM) and leaving him. Donna called the shots. She gave, she took.
    When I bingewatched this, everything was perfectly clear and obvious, and then I read the comments here and got really confused about if it was a real love declaration and all that. But I think people let themselves get rattled because of what is being said about the show (producers trying to keep us on our toes) and because they're afraid to hope. But if you just WATCH it, you don't need to question anything, it's ALL THERE.
    I'm glad they didn't get together just yet, because SUITS never lets people be happy for too long and if they had started something now, they wouldn't have been endgame. But now, they set the stage for this great love story: They made it epic. Harvey has to grow a lot more and then this relationship might work. It's important that she was- for the first time- the one who left. Now I think they'll get together in the end... in the *very* end.
    Also, I'd like to say how funny it is that so many people ship both Olicity and Darvey! Probably because thery really are very similar, but even though Olicity got me started with SUITS, I might even like Darvey better now...
    I have to thank you and Jbuffyangel for getting me so emotionally invested in this show (my heart really stared beating faster at certain scenes), but the joy is oh-so worth it, so thank you!! :)

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    1. Wow you watched all of Suits in one week?! That sounds like the best week ever...I need to do that some time.

      Anyway, welcome to the fandom!! =D

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    2. Welcome new Anon!!!

      I wish I was that optimistic lol.

      FOR ME at least, this is THE LOVE STORY of the show, since the beginning, although I don´t know if it was intentional from the writers or it was something that happened organically??

      I agree though that if they want Harvey and Donna to be endgame, they will get together in the very end. So we gotta be patient. The problem or doubt is if they will do it right until they get there.

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    3. I don't think that they have to get together in the VERY END for them to be endgame! I hope the writers can look at a show like BONES for example and see that you can have ore fun and write amazing stories when the couple is together. Booth and Bones have been an official for about 4 seasons now and BONES is at it's 10th season and still going strong! And they couple got together way before the end...so I guess what I'm saying is that they can bring them together next season and give them great story lines in the future. I just hope the writers will know what they are doing and not ruin Darvey. I would prefer them to get together now because honesty 5 season of waiting is more than enough! Doesn't mean they can't be endgame anyways :)

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    4. 1) HELLO THERE NEW ANON! I see you found me from my name twin and soul sister Jen (with one N, not two, haha). That's awesome too that you read my Arrow reviews. Ahhhhh, I get such a false sense of being a celebrity on the internet thanks to people like Jen, lol.

      2) WOW you really binge-watched fast. I applaud you!

      3) The music director for Suits is one of the actual best. The only person better is the one who does music for The CW. Because dang those Harvey/Donna scenes in the final two episodes were so on point.

      4) But now, they set the stage for this great love story: They made it epic. Harvey has to grow a lot more and then this relationship might work. It's important that she was- for the first time- the one who left.

      ABSOLUTELY. And amen. So so true.

      I'm so glad you are into Suits now in addition to Arrow! Welcome to the fun. :D

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  34. http://au.ibtimes.com/suits-season-5-spoilers-rachel-mike-not-get-married-soon-harvey-see-shrink-1428940

    If you are interested.. new thoughts about season 5.

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  35. I know it's been a while, but I still have too many thoughts and I just got some time to jot a few of them down. Hope someone's still out there...

    I know a lot of you guys are excited/happy about Harvey going to therapy, and I totally understand why. But I can't get excited about it because of something that's probably very stupid.

    Gossip Girl. *hides face in shame*

    Yes, I watched Gossip Girl and I was completely hooked on it way beyond the point where any sane individual would have left it. I kept watching because I wanted to see my then OTP, Chuck and Blair, end up together. So sue me (but please don't because I literally could not justify my dedication).

    So the thing is that Darvey and Chair have some striking differences but also some similarities. Chuck was a scotch-drinking-womanizer-billionaire-teenager with ginormous daddy issues and mommy issues and all kinds of trust issues and abandonment complexes and whatnot. Harvey is nowhere near as bad when it comes to the drinking and the womanizing, but the issues do overlap.
    Blair was nothing like Donna really. She had her own issues, like her confidence and all that, but the similarity is that Chuck became dependent on her being in his life.
    Now the difference is that Chair started dating in s2 and then they had the most horrendous break up ever in s3 and Chuck hurt Blair and after that he almost consistently keeps trying to get her back and then at the end of s4 they almost get back together, but Chuck actually ends up saying no because he realizes he's not good for Blair. He is sure he made the right choice, but the loss of his one true love is just too much for him to bear.

    Enter the therapy Chuck-goes-to-therapy storyline of season 5.

    I was excited about this, I thought it was something that needed to happen so Chuck could get rid of his inner demons and be emotionally healthy for Blair.

    Instead this became the beginning of the end of Chuck Bass. He went from being a smooth-talking, never-giving-a-shit, cocky-and-yet-charming, lovable asshole (kind of like Harvey is now) to a sweet, snivelling, puppy-dog-eyed, goody-two-shoes (something I do not want Harvey to become). The Chuck Bass the fandom fell in love with NEVER CAME BACK. And the new version sucked. A lot.

    And I am afraid of that happening here to Harvey. I am afraid these writers will do the same stupid move the GG writers did - take an awesome, but flawed character to therapy because of ONE ASPECT of their personality and instead change the whole damned personality!
    I want Harvey and Donna to get together as much as the next person, but I DO NOT want it to come at the expense of the characters themselves. If characters get together by acting OOC then I'm sorry, but that is not a win. I want to see THIS Harvey and THIS Donna get together. I already feel like they damaged Donna's character a bit by making her do something so stupidly illegal just so she could feel awesome (Donna has always been portrayed as someone who is 100% proud to be where she is and never feels the need to prove herself because SHE KNOWS she's awesome). And I also already feel like Harvey going to therapy at all is OOC. Definitely hoping Jessica forces him to go.

    So yea I don't mean to make anyone else nervous, but I just hope someone understands why I'm nervous. I've seen a show attempt the therapy storyline and everything went to shit. And before you ask, NO I do not think GG was anywhere near as good of a show as Suits has been, because GG was really only a good show for two seasons, and anyone who watched after that was only watching for Chair. Suits has been a good show for four seasons. The Suits writers are absolutely better than the GG writers. I know this. But I'm still scared.

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  36. (It also doesn't help that GG did the therapy storyline in season 5 because Chuck lost Blair, and now Suits is doing the therapy storyline IN SEASON 5 because HARVEY LOST DONNA omg I cannot take the similarities, I'm so scared guys.)

    Someone please reassure me. Or just slap me. Either will do.

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    1. Hi harumscarum,

      Thanks for sharing your concerns... and I can see why you’re worried. As you said, they’re such different shows, and I don’t think Suits’ writers may take the same road. But I understand your point...

      As much as I’m excited with this Harvey’s shrink plot, because of the insight it can give us about Harvey’s emotional background, I agree that it could also be a potentially dangerous road if the writers don’t do it right. I know many of you don’t trust them, but I’m confident they’ll make the right choice.

      I think the reason I’m such a Darvey shipper is because Harvey is my favourite character on the show, and I just want good things happening to him. I feel that he got more complex through the seasons, specially these last 2 seasons where he made a huge development, and has become such a layered character. You could see some hints of it in Season 1, and that’s probably what made us stay and ship for him from the beginning. But from Season 2 on has been such a great ride! And I think not only the writers but Gabriel Macht’s performance over the years has to be aknowledged for that evolution. I feel the same way about Mike, but I think Harvey got even more complex and appealing in that sense, or maybe it’s just a personal preference.

      As a TV series consumer myself, I think that this evolution in characters is everything you can wish for when watching a series. It’s what makes the difference between a 2-hour movie or a 60-episode (40 hours) series. I feel like I invested so much in these characters than when you see them grow or blossoming, it’s makes you feel proud in a mommy-way :P We’ve been with them all along the way, and just being a part of that evolution, makes the character more real. So, I understand the frustration that it comes when, like harumscarum, you see a chance that the writers can screw up...

      This evolution for Harvey is what makes it so interesting for me. I saw him grow in many ways, and in all his relationships (both personal and professional). And it’s my impression that Donna’s thoughts or comments are what everyone of us would tell Harvey. OK, here’s my theory: we all looove Donna because in a sense WE ARE DONNA. Someone who keeps pushing him through a journey of emotional discovery in the hopes that he learns to understand his feelings and to be happy for once. Of course, we want him to end up with Donna. I see them becoming this powerful couple who are everything for each other (friends, lovers, life companions). BUT (and don’t kill me here) they don’t need to end up together to prove that he has evolved. I’d be satisfied if by the series finale, I see him having accomplished to better understand himself and manage his emotions as he should. Darvey would be the cherry on top! ;) I guess what I’m saying is that Darvey needn’t to happen, for me. But, I’ll be more than happy if it does :)

      I’m sorry I went a little off-topic here... But anyway, harumscarum, I want you to keep your hopes up. You’ll see everything will turn out great! ;) Otherwise, the ones who’ll need a shrink will be US!!! LOL LOL LOL

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    2. Hi, Anna, thanks for sharing your thoughts. Yea, I sometimes think these writers could pull it off well as a way to bring about more character development for Harvey...but other times I'm scared they'll get lost along the way and change him completely. And that would suck because then if Darvey got together (something that IMO needs to happen) it would be cheapened by the fact that it's not really OUR Darvey that got together, just a couple of strangers (what happened in GG).

      OH and I forgot to mention one more thing that bothers me....in GG when Chuck and Blair were dating Chuck became extremely dependent on Blair being a part of his life and also made the assumption that she would always be there no matter what shitty thing he did to her.
      Harvey is even more dependent on Donna, but he would never do anything so shitty to her. Ever.
      But a big part of Chuck's therapy storyline was him learning to not be so dependent on Blair. He had to learn to be okay without her. He had to be happy without her.
      .
      *takes deep breath*
      .
      I DON'T WANT HARVEY TO BE HAPPY WITHOUT DONNA!

      There I said it.

      Ok this might make me a horrible person, it might make me seem immature, and maybe no one will ever believe me when I say I love Harvey to death, but I'm sorry I LOVE that Harvey is so dependent on Donna. I LOVE that he relies on her for so much, not just professionally, but personally, I LOVE that he can't be himself without her, I LOVE that he needs her, I LOVE ALL OF THIS.

      And if they try and "fix" Harvey by making him be happy without Donna then I will be very.very.mad.

      I have a feeling they might have to do this though, because Darvey isn't gonna happen till the end (probably) and they can't have sad/mopey Harvey for so long. They're going to make him happy...without Donna....*cries*

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    3. harumscarum

      I understand your concerns, I don´t trust them either, but what can we do? nothing, just hoping for the best.

      I am sure that there will be things in season 5 that I won´t like at all. We have our own opinons about how things should go, but lets see if the do a good job as a whole.

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    4. I mean, let's be real here: GG is the worst thing to compare anything to, haha. From what I saw and read about the series, it was kind of a hot mess from start to finish. So I wouldn't put too much stock in how things were handled there. In Community, for example, Jeff ends up going to therapy and it helped to better him as a character, which was really refreshing.

      I DON'T WANT HARVEY TO BE HAPPY WITHOUT DONNA!

      There I said it.

      Ok this might make me a horrible person, it might make me seem immature, and maybe no one will ever believe me when I say I love Harvey to death, but I'm sorry I LOVE that Harvey is so dependent on Donna. I LOVE that he relies on her for so much, not just professionally, but personally, I LOVE that he can't be himself without her, I LOVE that he needs her, I LOVE ALL OF THIS.


      Okay, here's the thing: I love that Donna is the person who is always there for Harvey. I love their partnership, I really do. But it's not healthy for him to use Donna for whatever he needs and NOT be willing to give anything emotionally in return. THAT is the problem right now, really, not that Harvey relies on Donna but that he relies on her and he's the one taking all of the benefits in the relationship without having to give anything. Right now, Harvey isn't being vulnerable with her. He's not being 100% REAL with her about what he feels and why he feels it.

      Therapy really needs to help Harvey learn to be in touch with his own emotions and his feelings more so he can have an even BETTER relationship with the people in his life, including Donna. Does that make sense? Because right now he has an unhealthy need to rely on her for anything and everything without the ability to GIVE her things in return. And that's selfish, really. Harvey needs to learn how to be less selfish with his emotions and less guarded if he and Donna can ever have the best relationship possible.

      So I am staunchly on team "Harvey going to therapy will be better not worse for him and his character." ;)

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    5. See this is why I like talking to you guys. Your positivity rubs off on me, at least temporarily. =P

      "In Community, for example, Jeff ends up going to therapy and it helped to better him as a character, which was really refreshing." >>This gives me hope!

      Jenn, you're right about Harvey being selfish in the relationship, relying on Donna for everything but not being willing to talk about his feelings openly. I completely agree! I don't want them to go back to the way they were because it's not fair to Donna now that she knows Harvey has been keeping these feelings from her. But it'll take them a long time before they can become something more and in the interim Harvey is going to have to deal with the loss. I'm just saying that, as mean as it sounds, I don't want Harvey to be happy without Donna by his side. I want him to be sad. I don't want him to be like, "Oh well, I guess I have to move on from this."

      However, I think they'll have to make him be okay with it soon enough because they can't have him being grouchy for too long.....

      Is it wrong that the finale was almost two weeks ago and I'm still thinking about this stuff? I actually have a lot more thoughts on exactly what Donna is referring to when she says Harvey has "everything"....and I wanted to talk about past episodes in light of this finale too, I just never have the time....that would be a long post =P

      Jenn, I wish you had a space where we could discuss past episodes too lol!

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    6. I feel like I still haven't got my point across:

      I don't want Harvey to adapt to being without Donna. I don't want him to learn to be less dependent on her. I mean I guess he'll HAVE to for a while but I want it to be difficult. And when Darvey is awesome and together again I want him to go back to being totally dependent on her BUT ALSO be more open and vulnerable with her.

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    7. harumscarum: So I understand most of what you're saying but this is the part I'm caught up on: I want him to go back to being totally dependent on her. See... I don't. It's not healthy at ALL. It's also worse for Donna than it is for Harvey, but it's bad for Harvey, too. If this was a real relationship -- a situation like say, your best friend -- you would tell your friend that it's dangerous to depend on someone else to fulfill you. It's dangerous to rely on another person for EVERYTHING. You just can't do that. Harvey being completely and totally dependent on Donna doesn't mean he needs her or loves her -- it means he's so insecure that he can't BE without her. And I think Harvey needs to be without Donna in order to appreciate her. The only way you can ever truly appreciate someone is if you realize what you have without them, right?

      So in one sense, I kind of understand your point: I want therapy to realize Harvey needs to open up with Donna about things that he's closed-off to if they're ever going to have a successful, balanced relationship of give-and-take. But I think I also want therapy to teach Harvey that it's okay to place distance and not rely on her for EVERY little thing because it's not healthy. Again: that doesn't mean Harvey suddenly loves Donna less. It actually would mean he loves her MORE. It would mean that he's willing to give and to take and to not just take from her. Because what you described above? That's a co-dependent relationship. And it's not really healthy for either party. Donna has to live her life and Harvey has to live his. Their worlds cannot be wrapped up totally in each other because then their IDENTITIES are wrapped up in each other. Does that make sense?

      Of course, I want Harvey to tell Donna how much he needs her and values her but I don't want her to be the one single fulfillment in his life and like, the only thing he needs to survive. It all sounds romantic when you type it out ("I need you and I can't live without you") but it's awfully counterproductive for character growth and development. And like, psychological well-being.

      I think more than anything though, therapy will get to the WHY of the matter: WHY does Harvey act the way he does? WHY does he feel a certain way? etc. etc. That is more important than anything else, truthfully.

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    8. Diana : Hi all! Ok i had to write something on this because I read all of your opinions. I must say that I agree both with harumscarum and with Jen. I would not want the writers to use therapy to make harvey "forget" about donna and to help him move on with his life and accept she's not there anymore. I don't want that...but I agree with Jen. Dependency in any type of relationship is incredibly unhealthy! I don't want Harvey to love Donna because he needs her, I want him to need her because he is IN love with her. You know what i mean?!

      I would like for the therapy to make harvey understand why he has so many issues when it comes to his feelings and to make him realize how he really feels about Donna and to finally fight for her both professionally and romantically. And i want him to learn from his therapy how to gain the confidence and courage it risk it with donna and finally be able to start a romantic relationship with her. I am hoping so much and crossing my fingers til they bleed that that is the road the writers will be following...giving Donna and Harvey a healthy and trustworthy and hopefully sometimes (but not always) lovey-dovey relationship ;)

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  37. Can anybody tell me what was the ending sonng in this episode???

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    1. this empty northern hemisphere by gregory alan isakov

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  38. Diana: Also, I was just wondering what your opinions are about this because sometimes I feel like the writers do things with this show that make no sense

    Why do you think they constantly use "God damn" in the show. And this is totally not a religious issue for me personally, its just that even I find it a bit annoying. I mean one episode I counted just for fun and they said it 11 times. 11 times in a 42 min episode! don't they know other swear other that GD and sh*t lol. Why do they do this if it obviously upsets some people. It doesn't bring anything extra to the show :/

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  39. The Harvey/Donna dynamic is really interesting. I loved when she called him out for pitying her (and also loved that they played "The World" by Earlimart during that scene. I'm really not sure whether or not Donna knows what she wants from Harvey, and some part of me thinks that they had Harvey screw things up with her just to add more drama to season 5 that eventually leads to them getting bavk together, but either way I am excited to see what they do.

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  40. My two cents on season five: Harvey's gonna play it cool and act like it never happened but Donna and everyone else will notice that, of course, and it'll take Harvey one big scene to realize what he's done and get his shit together to win Donna back. Though I think that'll be mid season (well sooner i hope). I think theyre going to keep playing their games until somebody realizes what's really going on and decides enough is enough.

    Im totally expecting Darvey angst, but I want Harvey/Louis angst more. I think it's Louis who's going to make Harvey see that. But not until they fight over Donna first. Oh, and Rachel and Mike being puppies in this whole thing. By puppies i mean messengers, but maybe i meant puppies, too.

    Hoping for a great season. Xx

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  41. Alright so they cast the shrink actress!
    http://tvline.com/2015/04/15/suits-season-5-cast-christina-cole-usa/

    If she helps Harvey get his sh*t together than ok...but if she does become his love interest that is it for me! That's it with SUITS!!! That would be the most cliché and unprofessional storyline of all time. Aaron Korsh has said that darvey would be cliché cuz she is his secretary but this would take it to a whole new level if this psychiatrist becomes his love interest! I hope she helps him realize his true feelings for Donna. Like enough is enough just get those two together it's getting annoying!

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  42. So, I read through most of these comments. They're all so layered and I love it! That said, I didn't read ALL of them so it's possible I missed it, but I was hoping to see some discussion about how at the end of this episode, Harvey says "I think you're one of the most amazing women I've ever met and just because I don't -" Just because he doesn't WHAT?! Do you think Donna chose to cut him off at that exact moment because she knew he was going to say something she didn't want to hear? I can't imagine him saying anything following that that would be something I want to hear as a Darvey shipper.

    No one warned me not to read Korsh interviews, and when I read that that scene wasn't supposed to read as romantic, I too was floored and disappointed. I feel like it's a disservice to us to mean one thing, and show us something else. I was definitely watching a different show than he was, because I just didn't see anything platonic about how that scene played out.

    Donna obviously didn't either, or she wouldn't have been as shocked as she was, or asked what he meant by it. It's frustrating. I hope that earlier commenters were right, and he's just trolling us all. But it certainly makes analyzing the characters and stories seem useless when everything we're told directly contradicts everything we're shown.

    Anyway, I'm buckling up for the rest of this roller coaster and hoping for the best! At the very least, we'll get some quality Louis/Donna time and that will make up for it (...at least somewhat.)

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  43. So, I started thinking about it some more - and logically, Korsh's assertion that he just said it out of pity or to make her feel better just doesn't measure up.

    Firstly - for four seasons, it's been hammered into our head repeatedly that Donna knows Harvey. Donna knows everything he's feeling, everything he's thinking. And then we're supposed to believe that all of a sudden, she's confused about how he feels about her?

    I just don't buy the version they're selling. Harvey isn't in love with Donna, but Donna is in love with Harvey, and she thinks he may be in love with her too (which is proven when she asks HOW he loves her) but really, he just platonically loves her and said it out of pity. That's believable, maybe, if you take the last four seasons of their relationship and go "jk, guys!"

    Maybe I'm grasping at straws, maybe I'm deluded - but something here just doesn't add up.

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