tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6678481478994191244.post3234602753125412868..comments2024-03-24T03:19:39.745-04:00Comments on Just About Write: Arrow 4x08 "Legends of Yesterday" (Time Travel is Really Hard to Write About)Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6678481478994191244.post-5724255815975188432015-12-05T12:55:20.692-05:002015-12-05T12:55:20.692-05:00I v much agree with like everything everyone has a...I v much agree with like everything everyone has already said, but also: I don't think telling Felicity would disrupt the timeline, right? Because after that day is over, they are caught up on the timeline and can live their normal life, right? So...he could just tell her?<br /><br />Also, logistically, this just will not work out. It's sort of a big bomb for both Oliver and Samantha, so maybe they could have taken more than one surprise of a conversation to figure out their future with their son? Just an idea.raehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08157356991575628598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6678481478994191244.post-91952292313304892092015-12-03T17:54:05.875-05:002015-12-03T17:54:05.875-05:00Oh my! I can´t believe they did that to us! I foll...Oh my! I can´t believe they did that to us! I follow The Flash, and even so I didn´t realize Barry could go back in time and Olicity´s argument will never happen, so I was petrified when Oliver decided to listen to Samantha (oh, I hate her already, if she is the one in the tomb six months from now I won´t feel a thing) and don´t tell Felicity. But then time travel happened and I thought this time Oliver would do the right thing, he can trust Felicity with everything, and tellin her he has a son wouldn´t be a problem, because Felicity won´t tell a soul! Bu no, he did the same. Also, with Olicity´s aparmet shattered I thought we could see the ring lying in the floor somewhere... <br />In a whole I love these two crossovers, I laughed a lot and saw almost anything of Laurel, but Oliver keeping something so important from Felicity makes it all wrong... :(<br />BriAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6678481478994191244.post-53882150708475112552015-12-03T16:06:59.246-05:002015-12-03T16:06:59.246-05:00All that said,
- I like Kendra. I like that she d...All that said,<br />- I like Kendra. I like that she doesn't just fall into her "pre-destined" relationship but that she also knew her life couldn't be with Cisco. I feel like all the screwing with Olicity kinda made it hard for me to care about or pay attention to the Kendra/Carter stuff. <br />- Cisco Ramon is a gentleman and a scholar and the most wonderful person who I just want to hug all the time. The way he reacted to loosing Kendra, the way he still supported and helped her to remember even if it meant changes in their relationship, the way he knew her enough to help even though they've only known each other for a little while. Oh, I love Cisco. Beccanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6678481478994191244.post-70362817103243329792015-12-03T16:06:29.738-05:002015-12-03T16:06:29.738-05:00I feel like everyone has already stated most of th...I feel like everyone has already stated most of the things that concern me about this storyline. It's more than a bad episode, it affects how much I want to watch the rest of the season.<br /><br />I feel that Samantha didn't have a good reason for not wanting Oliver in her son's life (although part of me nodded when we discovered we didn't take the money, she just didn't want anything to do with Moira Queen). What exactly does she think is going to be so destructive about knowing Oliver? I mean, we as the audience know that Oliver's life is very dangerous. His enemies, both current and future, could certainly threaten his son's life (which kinda puts a different spin on whether Oliver and Felicity decide to have kids someday). But Samantha doesn't know anything about that. She states what she knows: he's running for mayor, he's lost his mother and Tommy, he probably isn't the person she knew 10 years ago (who is?), she sees him talk so tenderly about Felicity (obviously a more mature relationship there). Where exactly is the "crazy" in all this that she needs to protect her son from? Obviously the writers can't have her know all that we know but that also means it makes her objections to Oliver REALLY weak. It felt contrived just to create drama in more than anything else in this episode. I wonder what she has told William about his father. Is she just avoiding the talk where she has to explain that what she told him before was a lie? Does she realise that she sounds so much like Moira Queen, the very woman she was trying to avoid? <br /><br />Barry's caution seems a bit much to me. The "death" of Vandal Savage is going to have major consequences, surely, but Felicity did find out in the last timeline so that's no major change. If they were going to break up (which Barry seemed to think was the case and I think that is impossible to know) keeping them together with a lie seems like a bigger change than telling her. Oliver was considering not being in William's life due to the dangers before Barry talked him out of it but Barry is ignoring the fact that from William's point of view it will not be growing up with a dad, it will be a random friend of his mom's stopping by occasionally (which he is going to feel differently about when he is 15 or 18). There is no way this lie doesn't damage that father-son relationship Barry talks so passionately about. Barry may not have had his father around for a good chunk of his life but he always had an honest relationship with him. Also feels very contrived just to create the lie time-bomb.<br /><br />And the last thing that didn't make sense to me. Oliver doesn't have to tell Felicity everything in order to be honest with her. It would have been better to just say - "I found out something upsetting regarding an old friend of mine who lives in Central City. I want tell you all about it but this friend has sworn me to secrecy and I'm going to respect their decision." Boom. Oliver hasn't told her about his son but he's also made it clear that it is something that concerns some other person's life who would not like it discussed. I don't know about Felicity but that would go a long way in helping me to understand. Just sayin'<br /><br />All these things combined with my general feeling that Oliver has progressed beyond this kind of drama to make this whole plot line feel really heavy-handed and totally inorganic. The painful and somewhat stupid decisions Oliver made last year felt painful and somewhat stupid but never so contrived.Beccanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6678481478994191244.post-38319890403734026852015-12-03T15:45:28.946-05:002015-12-03T15:45:28.946-05:00Also in slight defense (and it took me a while to ...Also in slight defense (and it took me a while to process my crushing disappointment before I got there), Barry didn't actually witness the fight between Felicity and Oliver, so he doesn't know that she was upset over the lying, not the kid. So now, in the new timeline, all Oliver knows is what Barry assumed about the fight, namely that Felicity dumped him over the fact that he has a kid. Knowing that makes it a little easier to understand why Oliver would keep it from her - he's absolutely terrified of losing her.<br /><br />It's still a lot of boring, tedious, bullshit though, and doesn't excuse the writers for being absolute blockheads about the whole thing. Argh. The rest of the season is now really tainted for me. And I was so enjoying it up to this point.<br /><br />Anyway. Great review, and I agree with you on pretty much all of it.<br /><br />~ShideezhiAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6678481478994191244.post-10416427201072116342015-12-03T10:38:47.077-05:002015-12-03T10:38:47.077-05:00Jenn, you're not harsh, you're right on po...Jenn, you're not harsh, you're right on points. My problem with this storyline is that no matter what is the intention, lying and keeping secret to the person you love is not a good thing, it will backfire to you at the worst point and you might not come back from that. I could not get pass the lie every time I see Oliver with Felicity and even worse if he propose without telling the truth, for me, it's tainted with lie and broken trust! The writers should have learnt their lesson in Season 3...apparently they're not, they went that road again for what? for the sake of the TV Drama Bullshit! They should have handled it differently but they went with the obvious one! A lie is a lie no matter how you justify it. It's not difficult to break a trust what's difficult is to earn it back! roseelyn21https://www.blogger.com/profile/02915158315690968808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6678481478994191244.post-86113051664887936292015-12-03T08:24:06.618-05:002015-12-03T08:24:06.618-05:00Ambi -- Thanks so much for your comments!
As for...Ambi -- Thanks so much for your comments! <br /><br /><i>As for 4x09, if the spoilers are true....how am i supposed to be happy? especially when he probably wont come clean quite that soon.</i><br /><br />See, this is the corner they have backed themselves into. WE know he's lying but Felicity doesn't. So how are we now supposed to root for them to succeed when we know that one half is hiding something pretty pivotal from his other half? It's a really, REALLY bad storytelling move akin to season three. I thought the writers learned from their mistakes. Apparently... not.Jenniferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11696902354009598893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6678481478994191244.post-34878509034629137302015-12-03T08:22:38.488-05:002015-12-03T08:22:38.488-05:00Sabrina -- Thanks so much for your compliment! I d...Sabrina -- Thanks so much for your compliment! I definitely also left with a season three deja vu and not in the good way. HOW DOES THAT BABY MAMA LOGIC MAKE ANY SENSE? Why is keeping it a secret going to benefit William in the long-run? <br /><br /><i>Also, how would she even have known if he told Felicity? Barry already knows, so there was no reason not to tell Felicity. The writer's are creating soapy drama without considering the character they have developed.</i><br /><br />That's such a fair point. In slight defense, baby mama doesn't know that Barry knows. So for whatever (stupid) reason, she wants Oliver to be the only one who knows. I don't honestly know how that benefits anyone and logically, for Oliver, what you said makes absolute sense. There is no reason for Felicity to not be told about this except to create shoddy, soapy drama. Because we all know she will find out. She's already suspicious and is like, a billion times smarter than Oliver will ever be. The writers are literally delaying the inevitable at this point.<br /><br />Thank you for your comment and I'm glad you enjoyed the review. :)Jenniferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11696902354009598893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6678481478994191244.post-52061500997456259542015-12-03T08:19:54.485-05:002015-12-03T08:19:54.485-05:00You both are SO accurate. Samantha, wtf are you do...You both are SO accurate. Samantha, wtf are you doing as a mom? You're basically saying "leave my son alone or hang out with him but as mommy's friend because that's how I protect my kid?" William seems smart. He's going to start figuring things out or at least asking questions. And so... what? Samantha is going to repeat a cycle of lies to him, too? None of this makes any sense as to how it'll protect William in the long run.<br /><br />Also, BIG YES CONNIE -- WHY DOES OLIVER TRUST SOME RANDO OVER FELICITY, THE SUPPOSED LOVE OF HIS LIFE? Also you're totally right. This story serves to do NOTHING because we know Felicity will figure it out eventually ("I know things") and then we'll be back in the same spot that we were before they changed time. So... what is the point of this all anyway? OH WAIT THERE IS NONE.<br /><br />Also, Connie, I love that Barry is the only one who can call him "Ollie" without me inwardly cringing. It's adorable and something Barry would definitely do. <br /><br />Thank you for commenting and I'm glad I could help you process all of this! Look forward to reading your recap. :DJenniferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11696902354009598893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6678481478994191244.post-7147467625851306102015-12-03T08:11:43.168-05:002015-12-03T08:11:43.168-05:00Honestly, I still don't think Felicity is in t...Honestly, I still don't think Felicity is in the grave despite the idea that time will find a way to recoup its loss of Vandal Savage. That said, I am leaning more toward the idea now that it's William in the grave and that not telling Felicity and making the child become a part of his life will have repercussions for Oliver in a way that will shake him in a way nothing else has before.<br /><br /><i>I mean yes there would have been drama between Felicity, Oliver and Samantha but that would have been more intresting than the same old drama about lying. Plus I would have loved to get everyone's opinions on the matter including Thea and Diggle who should have alot to say on the subject. Thea would be an Aunt right?</i><br /><br />You hit the nail right on the head -- any kind of friction between Oliver's new life and his old one with Samantha would have been INFINITELY more interesting than the shoddy "drama" they're creating by lying. ALSO YES THEA WOULD BE AN AUNT, HOW COULD I HAVE FORGOTTEN THIS?!<br /><br />Can Barry please run us all back in time so we can forget this plot even existed?Jenniferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11696902354009598893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6678481478994191244.post-63304137560922323642015-12-03T08:08:57.381-05:002015-12-03T08:08:57.381-05:00Among my MANY problems with this storyline is one ...Among my MANY problems with this storyline is one that you mention so beautifully. I do not get Samantha as a mother- having some random guy interact with you does not provide you with a father. It's weird and creepy. (The only way some new guy who has no role in your life taking major interest in you is normal is if he is in a relationship with your parent.) The only way to truly have your father in your life is if KNOW he's your father. Oliver just having random playdates with her kid does absolutely nothing for William. The secret arrangement assuages some of Oliver's needs (although not in a healthy way) which might make her feel slightly less horrible for lying all this time - but she is still lying to her son and, in the long run, harming her son, the one whose best interests she should really have at heart. This is about protecting herself I think. She gets rid of the threat of Oliver doing something legitimate to see his child and she doesn't have to come clean with her own son for keeping something so vital from him for his whole life. Boy, she's like a little Moira copy. Does no one learn anything from Moira Queen?? The instinct for self-preservation by lying and keeping secrets so you don't have to deal with difficult emotions just postpones and enlarges the pain. Those secrets are ALWAYS time bombs which serve to damage lives and relationships, sometimes irrevocably. Arrrgh! Nothing about this secret arrangement between baby mama and Oliver can be maintained for any period of time and it will only damage everyone in their lives. These two parents need to be less concerned about their own pain and more concerned about their child. It's called being the grown up.Beccanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6678481478994191244.post-66096958635027628662015-12-03T02:57:48.154-05:002015-12-03T02:57:48.154-05:00"Whatever tragedy you think you've just a..."Whatever tragedy you think you've just averted, time will find a way to replace it." -Eobard Thawne. I love this quote BTW.<br /><br />Acorrding to the rules the established in the Flash someone must die. Its why Mason died instead of Cisco someone will die on Arrow for the alteration of the timestream. I mean Oliver doubted that the timestream would give him karma for lying to Felicity. Felicity is most likley the one in the grave. I mean think about how important she is to the whole show and to Oliver. <br /><br />Her death would be a massive karmic retribution to Oliver Queen. Now chances are its not her but I think this event pushed her up the list just to make Queen pay. Plus Mason's death did cause a game-changer on the Flash so it may go the same way on Arrow. <br /><br />Now as for the baby mama stuff no complaints massively on point. I can see why you would be so angry that Oliver who has changed so much would backslide so hard. I mean yes there would have been drama between Felicity, Oliver and Samantha but that would have been more intresting than the same old drama about lying. Plus I would have loved to get everyone's opinions on the matter including Thea and Diggle who should have alot to say on the subject. Thea would be an Aunt right? <br /><br />Anyway this episode was also not as fun as the one on the Flash and the Vandal Savage plot was weaker here but I wanted the baby mama stuff to be handled back in Season 3 so good we are getting it out of the way now. But now with Felicity possibily dying Oliver queen may be sliding back into Darhkness. <br /><br />Pun fufilled for this recap. I regret nothing. Donavan Walkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17451184544030827641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6678481478994191244.post-85470896650112754072015-12-02T23:45:27.462-05:002015-12-02T23:45:27.462-05:00Not too harsh! I usually wait to read your reviews...Not too harsh! I usually wait to read your reviews until after I write my recaps (been falling off lately on both fronts) but I needed some context as I worked out some of my own thoughts. And all the things you said are so true. The trust, the learning 99% of the lesson but also WHY IN THE WORLD DOES OLIVER TRUST THIS WOMAN WHO LEFT AND LIED TO HIM OVER FELICITY!? Especially when no scenario she presented was "be his long distance dad." It just doesn't.... UGH. I know that Oliver is so desperate to get to know his kid, but this doesn't track, since Baby Mama lied to him and still isn' t letting him get to know him. Also: 1. Felicity isn't fooled. She's totally gonna be watching him. 2. "Sorry, honey, gotta go to Central City to see Barry." ::Barry zooms to visit Felicity as he leaves:: LIE IS BROKEN. How is he gonna get away to see this kid every so often?! 3. This lets Oliver get to know his son, but the kid doesn't get to know his dad... He just knows this strange man who suddenly wants to hang out with him (that wasn't creepy or concerning AT ALL). This is a one sided relationship full of lies that will not end well for anyone. Le sigh. You were going SO WELL with the character growth, Ollie. <br /><br />(real side note: No one in the post Arrow time of Oliver's life calls him Ollie but Bary and he's the only one who can properly get away with it. It brings me joy amongst badly plotted arcs.)<br /><br />Oh look, I worked out some feelings. More thoughts in my recap laterzzzz. Connie [@ConStar24]https://www.blogger.com/profile/11662778725868412944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6678481478994191244.post-88527981139347420902015-12-02T22:59:19.067-05:002015-12-02T22:59:19.067-05:00Your baby mama comments were so on point! I left t...Your baby mama comments were so on point! I left the episode feeling season 3 deja vu. I hate where they went with this story, especially baby mama's assertion that he couldn't see his son unless he kept it a secret from everyone. It's 2015, and father's have rights. Even Oliver should be able to figure that out. Also, how would she even have known if he told Felicity? Barry already knows, so there was no reason not to tell Felicity. The writer's are creating soapy drama without considering the character they have developed. Sabrina Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00515970937425803486noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6678481478994191244.post-12647797388283501402015-12-02T22:14:10.471-05:002015-12-02T22:14:10.471-05:00i think your baby mama thoughts were perfect! how ...i think your baby mama thoughts were perfect! how am i supposed to root for Oliver in anything Felicity related now i know he's keeping a secret? the writers have obviously forgotten nearly everyones remarks about season 3 and have gone down the drama for dramas sake route again. <br />As for 4x09, if the spoilers are true....how am i supposed to be happy? especially when he probably wont come clean quite that soon. ambihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17785692531912274584noreply@blogger.com